Putting time back on the clock

[Timer Dave]

I’m a clock operator for high school basketball. It seems to me the whole “put time back on the clock at the end of a game” has gotten out of hand. If you’re putting time back on at the end of the game, what about the other 100 times the clock gets stopped during the game? In any event, even when the clock operator is “on it,” it still takes .2 or .3 seconds to get the clock stopped after a whistle. And sometimes you don't get a whistle until the ball has bounced out of bounds a couple of times, and I stop the clock on the first bounce before the whistle (which I believe I'm allowed to do). Anyway, that’s my editorial comment, now on to the situation that happened last night.

Team A gets the go ahead basket in the waning moments of the game. I’m ready for a whistle, because I can hear Team B coach yelling for a time out. The official right in front of the table blows his whistle and I stop the clock with 4.8 seconds left. I was “on it.” Even in the loud gym the official that acknowledged the time out was right in front of me, so I could clearly hear the whistle. As I said earlier, it takes .2 or .3 to stop the clock after a whistle. But one of the other officials comes running up to the table, “7 seconds, put 7 seconds on the clock.” No discussion with other officials or anything. I don’t know what the rationale was for that…maybe that’s when the ball went through the basket so he figured that’s when Team B coach started to try and call time out? In any event, that cost Team A the game as Team B, after kind of fumbling the ball hit a desperation three at the buzzer to win. Just wondering what all you expert officials think of that. Should I have questioned him?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Timer Dave

I’m a clock operator for high school basketball. It seems to me the whole “put time back on the clock at the end of a game” has gotten out of hand. If you’re putting time back on at the end of the game, what about the other 100 times the clock gets stopped during the game? In any event, even when the clock operator is “on it,” it still takes .2 or .3 seconds to get the clock stopped after a whistle. And sometimes you don't get a whistle until the ball has bounced out of bounds a couple of times, and I stop the clock on the first bounce before the whistle (which I believe I'm allowed to do). Anyway, that’s my editorial comment, now on to the situation that happened last night.



Team A gets the go ahead basket in the waning moments of the game. I’m ready for a whistle, because I can hear Team B coach yelling for a time out. The official right in front of the table blows his whistle and I stop the clock with 4.8 seconds left. I was “on it.” Even in the loud gym the official that acknowledged the time out was right in front of me, so I could clearly hear the whistle. As I said earlier, it takes .2 or .3 to stop the clock after a whistle. But one of the other officials comes running up to the table, “7 seconds, put 7 seconds on the clock.” No discussion with other officials or anything. I don’t know what the rationale was for that…maybe that’s when the ball went through the basket so he figured that’s when Team B coach started to try and call time out? In any event, that cost Team A the game as Team B, after kind of fumbling the ball hit a desperation three at the buzzer to win. Just wondering what all you expert officials think of that. Should I have questioned him?

You should stop the clock on the whistle. I saw a timer stop a game with 0.3 seconds left the other night with no whistle till well after the clock would've expired.

You should do as the officials dictate. Perhaps that other official was granting the timeout and you didn't hear the whistle.

The game officials make these decisons, not timers.


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[genetoy71]

Originally Posted by Timer Dave

... And sometimes you don't get a whistle until the ball has bounced out of bounds a couple of times, and I stop the clock on the first bounce before the whistle (which I believe I'm allowed to do)...

And where exactly in the rule book does it say that the time keeper's observation and judgment supersede those of the people actually on the floor with striped shirts and whistles?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Timer Dave

If you’re putting time back on at the end of the game, what about the other 100 times the clock gets stopped during the game?

Teams have time to recover from timekeeping errors (or any error) made in the earlier stages of the game, but have no time to recover from such errors in the very late stages of the game, often creating a disadvantage difficult, or in some cases impossible, to overcome.

A timing error (or any error) caused by the officials, or by the timekeeper, with three minutes to go in the second period isn't quite the same as a timing error (or any error) caused by the officials, or by the timekeeper, with five seconds to go in the fourth period.

Mistakes that may occur early in the game are always magnified when the same mistakes occur late in the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Timer Dave

... sometimes you don't get a whistle until the ball has bounced out of bounds a couple of times, and I stop the clock on the first bounce before the whistle (which I believe I'm allowed to do).

And you would be mistaken.

5-8: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an
official:
ART. 1 Signals:
a. A foul.
b. A held ball.
c. A violation.
d. A time-out.

Instructions To And Duties Of The Timer For Basketball Games
Stop The Official Timepiece When:
1. Any period ends.
2. An official gives a time-out signal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

You should stop the clock on the whistle.

The rule actually states "signal" not "whistle" but for all intents and purposes both are the same (a whistle could be a type of signal, kayakers here in Connecticut are required to always carry a whistle with them to "signal" in cases of distress, or to avoid collisions).

Plus, in real life, we all know that timekeepers aren't looking for the official's signal but are listening for the sound of the official's whistle.

Back when I was coaching middle school basketball I had student scorekeepers and timekeepers (to allow more students to become a part of the team, in many cases nonathletic students).

Teaching student timekeepers when to start the clock was very difficult, but teaching them when to stop the clock was very easy, "Stop the clock when you hear an official's whistle".

Not correct by rule, but it worked quite well for over twenty-five years.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Timer Dave

And sometimes you don't get a whistle until the ball has bounced out of bounds a couple of times, and I stop the clock on the first bounce before the whistle (which I believe I'm allowed to do).

No, you're not.

You're only authorized to start the clock without indication if the official forgets to do so...such as after a missed free throw or throw-in where the ball is clearly inbounds and no indication has been made to start the clock.

[crosscountry55]

You can start the clock by rule if the official fails to signal. But you cannot stop it by rule until he/she does. If you see it bounce a couple of times, how are you sure the first bounce wasn’t barely inbounds and the official is simply correctly waiting for the ball to actually hit something OOB? Good example is an airball. Might look to you to be OOB and maybe no players are going after the ball trying to save it, but it could hang in the air a whole second or two before you actually get a whistle.

When I was a timer years ago, I would avoid the temptation to start the clock when I saw the throw in legally end. I would wait for the official’s signal, figuring that in the 0.24s it took for me to see that and start the clock, it would ultimately balance out the 0.24s it took me to hear a whistle and push the button to stop the clock. I felt the game was very accurately timed that way.

For the OP, I want you to be completely honest. You said Team A ended up losing in a tough way. Were they the home team and were you timing for the home school? If so, there’s a small bias that we can’t ignore in this discussion.


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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're only authorized to start the clock without indication if the official forgets to do so...

5-9-1: After time has been out, the clock shall be started when the
official signals the clock to start. If the official neglects to signal, the timer
is authorized to start the clock as per rule, unless an official specifically
signals continued time-out.

Instructions To And Duties Of The Timer For Basketball Games
Start The Official Timepiece When:
1. A tossed ball is legally tapped when play is started by a jump.
2. The ball touches a player on the court during a throw-in (if clock has
been stopped).
3. An official signals “start the clock.” If he or she neglects to do so, the
official timepiece should be started unless an official specifically signals
that it should not be started.
4. The ball touches or is touched by a player on the court provided the
ball is to remain live if the free throw is missed. In these cases, the
official will give the start-the-clock signal, but if he or she neglects to
do so, the official timepiece should be started when it is apparent the
ball touches a player and is to remain live.

[BillyMac]

Officials have been known to spit out their whistles (or even forget to put a whistle in their mouth in rare cases).

I spit mine out last week and apologized to a coach for a very late whistle on a violation.

Maybe that explains the change in the timeout time put back on the clock?

Basketball Rules Fundamentals
16. The official’s whistle seldom causes the ball to become dead (it is
already dead).

[Freddy]

Reviewing the various responsibilities of "floor officials" vs. "table officials" makes me wonder if our old friend The Eagle has landed here in his old roosting area once again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Reviewing the various responsibilities of "floor officials" vs. "table officials" makes me wonder if our old friend The Eagle has landed here in his old roosting area once again.

The plot thickens.