Three D1 Refs Suing NCAA & Alliance Affiliated Leagues

[LRZ]

Experiences about accountability and reasonable environments vary widely, obviously, and let's not conflate school and travel/rec ball. My experience is that HS and MS coaches are held accountable, but travel/rec, not so much.

I'd rather do a competitive 4th grade game (yes, there is such a thing) or MS game than a 60-point HS blow-out, especially when I feel like I'm contributing to the kids' game in ways that the typical overweight, over-the-hill or indifferent official can't or won't.

And, fortunately for me, with lots of HSs and MSs in the Philadelphia suburbs, I set a 20-mile limit on Arbiter and I still work as much as I care to.

That's my experience, and I won't generalize beyond that.

[BillyMac]

I don't officiate basketball for the money, but I wouldn't do it for free, and I wouldn't do it if it weren't fun, and challenging.

I gave up recreation/travel/AAU games a long time ago (no longer needed the money). Gave up Catholic middle school games a few years ago. Now I only work games assigned by my local board, which includes middle school games.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by LRZ

Experiences about accountability and reasonable environments vary widely, obviously, and let's not conflate school and travel/rec ball. My experience is that HS and MS coaches are held accountable, but travel/rec, not so much.

That is true, but I am not working in everyone's area. For one all high school games are under the jurisdiction from the IHSA or even the IHSAA where I live. So that means that if I give as much of a technical foul, someone might have to answer. And certainly, if I eject someone from a game there really is accountability as there is a report to be filed with the home offices. There is no such thing at any middle school game I would work. There is an IESA but that does not apply to all games in the state. So that is what I mean about accountability. If I work a middle school game there is almost never a larger organization or standard of behavior. The assignor might be the only line of defense.

Originally Posted by LRZ

I'd rather do a competitive 4th grade game (yes, there is such a thing) or MS game than a 60-point HS blow-out, especially when I feel like I'm contributing to the kids' game in ways that the typical overweight, over-the-hill or indifferent official can't or won't.

I would agree with that, but that never happens here. We have a 30 point mercy rule that applies in the 4th Quarter and it is rare that even happens. Again like I said I work only boys games, hardly ever had a game where the score is that out of hand. But I will say, have a greater chance of working with officials you describe at the lower levels. I rarely work a single high school game with someone that cannot work.

Originally Posted by LRZ

And, fortunately for me, with lots of HSs and MSs in the Philadelphia suburbs, I set a 20-mile limit on Arbiter and I still work as much as I care to.

That's my experience, and I won't generalize beyond that.

I work in the Chicagoland area and Northwest Indiana. Schools are all over the place. I will never work a middle school game unless I am being helpful and someone needs a last-second replacement. But I work enough and would rather make real money that being a ho and getting excited that I made 75 dollars working two games. I have no tolerance for this. But this is my overall point, I do not have to. That is ultimately the reality in this situation.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no such thing at any middle school game I would work ... about accountability. If I work a middle school game there is almost never a larger organization or standard of behavior.

That's unfortunate. Here in my little corner of Connecticut, while middle school unsporting activity reports may not reach the state level, things do move a little up the chain.

All middle school unsporting technical fouls (and anything unsporting, i.e., fans) are reported to our assignment commissioner. He then reports the unsporting activity to the athletic director (of the high school, or school district). Public middle school coaches are usually supervised by the athletic director of the high school, or the athletic director of the entire school district.

Not the accountability of high schools, but there is some accountability. Supervising athletic directors do not want unsporting activity in their middle school athletic events, and all public school coaches here in Connecticut are on one year contracts.

At least it's not the Wild Wild West.



R.I.P. Robert Conrad.

[ilyazhito]

How did we get from a lawsuit involving old college officials trying to hang on to talk about middle school games and the accountability involved or lack thereof?

Grab your popcorn, strap in, and hold on tight, 'cause something big is about to happen.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

How did we get from a lawsuit involving old college officials trying to hang on to talk about middle school games and the accountability involved or lack thereof?

Best I can figure, it started here:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... work your little 4th grade games ...

And then the snowball got bigger:

Originally Posted by Rich

No need to insult the 4th graders by calling it a "little 4th grade game."

And bigger:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Working a middle school game can be a cluster ...

It got really big:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... accountability ... no such thing at any middle school game I would work ... never a larger organization or standard of behavior.

And this didn't help matters:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I only work games assigned by my local board, which includes middle school games.

And, bam, here we are.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's unfortunate. Here in my little corner of Connecticut, while middle school unsporting activity reports may not reach the state level, things do move a little up the chain.

All middle school unsporting technical fouls (and anything unsporting, i.e., fans) are reported to our assignment commissioner. He then reports the unsporting activity to the athletic director (of the high school, or school district). Public middle school coaches are usually supervised by the athletic director of the high school, or the athletic director of the entire school district.

Not the accountability of high schools, but there is some accountability. Supervising athletic directors do not want unsporting activity in their middle school athletic events, and all public school coaches here in Connecticut are on one year contracts.

You are missing the point. This is not about reporting something to the AD or assignment chairperson. This is about having an overseeing organization like any state organization that if something happens, there is a formal reporting mechanism that could result in punishment or control eligibility. Many middle school games have no such larger organization. Actually Illinois to my understanding has the largest middle school organization called the Illinois Elementary Athletic Association. And the IESA is not a statewide organization. It is only part of the state (a large part). For example where I live there are not many IESA schools that participate in any such statewide tournaments. So if a coach or player is ejected or there is a fan that does something inappropriate, you cannot go to an organization other than maybe the administration or conference and they may or may not take action. If that happens with an IESA sporting event, they can suspend or penalize the school according to their by-laws. That is not the case if I work some local league, which has cause some real problems and why some officials do not work those games, there is a lack of accountability other than what the school decides they are going to do.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You are missing the point. There is a lack of accountability other than what the school decides they are going to do.

I'm not missing the point, I'm saying that Connecticut may be doing it a little better than some other states.

Public middle school athletic events (and coaches) are supervised by the athletic director of the high school, or the athletic director of the entire school district (system) in multiple high school cities, so there is some accountability above the middle school level.

Supervising athletic directors, which are not located in the offending school, but are at the high school, or the school district (system) office, do not want unsporting activity in their middle school athletic events (public school coaches, including middle school coaches, here in Connecticut are on yearly evaluations and one year contracts).

Our assignment commissioner is simply a middleman in this process, with no penalty authority, gathering unsporting information (including all unsporting technical fouls, even "garden variety" unsporting technical fouls) from the officials and sending it to the athletic director at the high school, or the athletic director of the entire school (system) district.

In the case of "ejections" (players or coaches), or other really serious middle school unsporting problems, our assignment commissioner is also required to send the unsporting information to our state interscholastic sports governing body, and that organization will issue penalties, including game suspensions of middle school coaches.

In other words there is always accountability outside of the school venue, in the case of "garden variety" technical fouls, usually one step higher than the school principal (i.e., the athletic director), and in the case of serious problems ("ejections"), all the way up to our state interscholastic sports governing body.

JRutledge is correct in that accountability almost never goes to the state level unless it's of a serious nature. Every once in a while we hear about a middle school coach getting a one game suspension (happened to the coach of the school where I used to teach) for an ejection, but that's an extremely rare occurrence.

Unlike Las Vegas, unsporting activity in the middle school gym doesn't stay in the middle school gym, or even stay in the middle school; at the minimum it gets "bumped up" one level (athletic director outside of the school venue); at the maximum, it gets "bumped up" to the state level.



Unsporting activity at private middle schools (and private prep high schools) serviced by our local board, and many Catholic middle schools not serviced by our local board (but by some of our local board members "moonlighting"), may not have any higher level of accountability.

Recreation leagues? Travel leagues? AAU?

It's the Wild Wild West in Connecticut.