Notre Dame/Florida State video request

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I’m assuming he has also failed to consider (or doesn’t know) that NCAA officials are evaluated on all games at every level.

The fact that actions have consequences cuts both ways.



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Maybe in Division 1, but at the D2 and D3 you aren't getting an eval every night. Still, even at those levels there aren't any conferences that will allow coaches to do what Brey did without some type of repercussion. And there is good reason for that on top of the fact that there are procedures in place for coaches to voice their displeasure internally.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I’m assuming he has also failed to consider (or doesn’t know) that NCAA officials are evaluated on all games at every level.

The fact that actions have consequences cuts both ways.



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Why would you make that assumption? I've definitely considered how that affects it and still think the benefits of an enforced silence policy(*) are outweighed by it's cost.

(*) Or an enforced dishonesty policy as the case may be.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Have you ever considered that conferences, which are run by conference commissioners at the behest of the schools' presidents, have rules regarding the media which their coaches are expected to follow?

So even if an official gets a judgement call wrong, the coach is probably not allowed to go to the media and blast that official by name.

Have you also considered that there are protocols in place for coaches to follow when they want to address an officiating issue?

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Did you read my post? I've not only considered that; I was stating rather explicitly my objection to such policies.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by youngump

Did you read my post? I've not only considered that; I was stating rather explicitly my objection to such policies.

Well, apparently the folks who run the college conferences across the country have different expectations and standards in regards to its coaches. I'm glad they do.

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[Raymond]

We all miss calls. My problem with this missed call is that the Center official could see the Lead is on the play.

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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

What? Transition plays are dual coverage nearly all the time....if there was a travel the Slot would actually have the best look here.

Unfortunate IC, reminder we need to have a HIGH degree of certainty before calling things that result in a turnover especially late in the game.

Transition or not, the Lead was five feet in front of the player with the ball with an open look at his actions. The Center was about 15 to 20 feet behind the ball looking at the back of the player. Open looks trump inflexible philosophies about coverage areas.



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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Transition or not, the Lead was five feet in front of the player with the ball with an open look at his actions. The Trail was about 15 to 20 feet behind the ball looking at the back of the player. Open looks trump inflexible philosophies about coverage areas.



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I think at the time of the pass / "third foot" coming down, L had another player in the way.

I have no problem with C getting this (assuming it had been a travel, of course).

Unless we talk with L, we won't know whether he saw it and judged it correctly, or didn't see it so didn't call it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I think at the time of the pass / "third foot" coming down, L had another player in the way.



I have no problem with C getting this (assuming it had been a travel, of course).



Unless we talk with L, we won't know whether he saw it and judged it correctly, or didn't see it so didn't call it.

If I'm that far behind a play and my partner's right there I'm not coming to get it, especially when I'm looking at the back of the player.

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Originally Posted by Raymond

Transition or not, the Lead was five feet in front of the player with the ball with an open look at his actions. The Trail was about 15 to 20 feet behind the ball looking at the back of the player. Open looks trump inflexible philosophies about coverage areas.

You mean the Center don't you?

In any case the Lead has a couple bodies passing between him and the player with the ball which can obscure his vision the feet/ball/etc.

In your first post you said the Center could see Lead was on the play. In transition there's no way any official should be looking at their partner to see where their eyes are. There's too much going on. In a half court set you generally get a feel for what your partners can and can't see but in transition -- all bets are off.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

You mean the Center don't you?



In any case the Lead has a couple bodies passing between him and the player with the ball which can obscure his vision the feet/ball/etc.



In your first post you said the Center could see Lead was on the play. In transition there's no way any official should be looking at their partner to see where their eyes are. There's too much going on. In a half court set you generally get a feel for what your partners can and can't see but in transition -- all bets are off.

The Lead is in the same line of vision as the ball-handler from the Center's vantage point.

We can either continue to do the same things or we can strive to get better by looking at plays where we (officials) make mistakes and figure out how or why it should have been handled differently.

I have also learned from my own personal experiences not to call travels when I don't see the ball thru the entire sequence. There is a point where the ball handler's back is completely turned to the Center official, therefore he would have no idea if there was a bobble or not during those two steps.

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[SC Official]

To me this wasn't even a "because it looked funny" travel. It didn't even enter my mind when I watched the play for the first time (I didn't know a travel was the call that preceded the T).

We all have bad ICs.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

... not to call travels when I don't see the ball thru the entire sequence. There is a point where the ball handler's back is completely turned to the Center official, therefore he would have no idea if there was a bobble or not during those two steps.

Good point, especially when the coach and fans see the ball being bobbled.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Open looks trump inflexible philosophies about coverage areas.

I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to hear that.

I’ve had way too many pregames this year where my R has uttered the stale and antiquated, “Tonight we’re going to referee our primaries...stay in your primary...unless it’s an elephant, blah blah blah.” These are quality varsity games and our conversations are at the 101 level instead of the 401 level. And I know what some of you are thinking....”well, Cross, as the U2 you have to step in and take charge of the pregame...” Hey I’m with ya, but around here usurping some of our grizzly veterans is about as taboo as a loud fart in church on Christmas morning. So after a while you just have to live with the fact that elements of your association are about ten years behind the times. It’s frustrating.



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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I can’t tell you how refreshing it is to hear that.

I’ve had way too many pregames this year where my R has uttered the stale and antiquated, “Tonight we’re going to referee our primaries...stay in your primary...unless it’s an elephant, blah blah blah.”

I do not have any issues with that being said. I still think you should do this for the most part. But you have to know when to come out of your primary and this probably was not one of them. Or we do not have a primary in transition. This was in transition. The calling official appeared to guess. And I have no idea if the lead saw this at all or had an opinion. The bottom line, if you make a call see it clearly.

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

These are quality varsity games and our conversations are at the 101 level instead of the 401 level. And I know what some of you are thinking....”well, Cross, as the U2 you have to step in and take charge of the pregame...” Hey I’m with ya, but around here usurping some of our grizzly veterans is about as taboo as a loud fart in church on Christmas morning. So after a while you just have to live with the fact that elements of your association are about ten years behind the times. It’s frustrating.

So you cannot say something in the pregame with your partners in the locker room? You cannot ask questions or be specific about a situation and ask "How do you handle it?"

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

"How do you handle it?"

Sounds like a thoughtful, reasonable question to me.