NFHS Rule - False Double Foul

[bd41flpk]

Looking to validate an adjudication of this play: Rule 4-19.Art 9

1. A1 is fouled by B1 during a press
2. A1 takes exception to the foul and pushes B1
3. A1 is assessed a technical foul
4. As the players are milling about for :30 seconds, B2 taunts A2
5. B2 is then assessed a technical foul
6. POI: (as Team A is in the bonus) A1 shoots the 1:1 and the teams occupy the lane spaces
7. The two Technical fouls against A1 and B2 are considered a False Double Foul and no shots are taken for the Technicals

Thanks in advance for the ruling comments.

[BillyMac]

My take:

1) A1 is fouled by B1 during a press
2) A1 takes exception to the foul and pushes B1
3) A1 is assessed a technical foul
4) As the players are milling about for 30 seconds, B2 taunts A2
5) B2 is then assessed a technical foul
6) A1 shoots the 1:1, no players occupy the lane spaces
7) Team B shoots technical foul free throws, no players occupy the lane spaces
8) Team A shoots technical foul free throws, no players occupy the lane spaces
9) Team A gets ball at division line, opposite table side

Point of interruption is the penalty for a double personal or a double technical foul and I don't see any type of double foul here.

Nor do I see simultaneous personal or simultaneous technical fouls by opponents (also point of interruption).

Absent any double fouls, or simultaneous fouls, each foul carries its own penalty, and the penalties for the acts described above are administered in the order in which they occurred.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

[*]POI: (as Team A is in the bonus)

POI does not come into play in this. Administer all the fouls in the order they occurred (see Billy's answer).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

POI does not come into play in this. Administer all the fouls in the order they occurred.

A double personal foul is a situation in which two opponents
commit personal fouls against each other at approximately the same
time.

A double technical foul is a situation in which two opponents
commit technical fouls against each other at approximately the same
time.

A false double foul is a situation in which there are fouls by
both teams, the second of which occurs before the clock is started
following the first, and such that at least one of the attributes of a double
foul is absent.

A simultaneous foul (personal or technical) by opponents is a
situation in which there is a foul by both teams which occurs at
approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against
each other.

A multiple foul is a situation in which two or more teammates
commit personal fouls against the same opponent at approximately the
same time.

A false multiple foul is a situation in which there are two or
more fouls by the same team and the last foul is committed before the clock
is started following the first, and at least one of the attributes of a multiple
foul is absent.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

Looking to validate an adjudication of this play: Rule 4-19.Art 9

1. A1 is fouled by B1 during a press
2. A1 takes exception to the foul and pushes B1
3. A1 is assessed a technical foul
4. As the players are milling about for :30 seconds, B2 taunts A2
5. B2 is then assessed a technical foul
6. POI: (as Team A is in the bonus) A1 shoots the 1:1 and the teams occupy the lane spaces
7. The two Technical fouls against A1 and B2 are considered a False Double Foul and no shots are taken for the Technicals

Thanks in advance for the ruling comments.

You go POI for DOUBLE FOULS, not FALSE Double Fouls. Each of the acts are penalized in order.

[bd41flpk]

Thank you for the reply back....

Your ruling is quite correct as I see that the POI only comes into play via a DOUBLE FOUL scenario and NOT a False Double Foul - as this was defined.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bd41flpk

The two Technical fouls against A1 and B2 are considered a False Double Foul and no shots are taken for the Technicals
.

You may be confusing this with "off-setting" technical fouls in a fight?

There has to be a fight (flagrant fouls, disqualifications, etc.) for this to happen.

I don't believe that "off-setting" technical fouls (no free throws) can occur outside of a fight.

[ilyazhito]

It's possible. A1 scores and says, "Can't stop that!". B2: "F*** you!" Here is another example of offsetting technical fouls, without a fight.

However, because the personal foul was followed by a technical foul, both fouls must be penalized. The third foul in the sequence (the second technical foul) must be enforced after the previous two fouls, because the previous fouls were enforced, making it a false double foul situation. The POI principle only applies to true double foul situations or simultaneous foul situations under NFHS rules.

Disclaimer: POI also applies to other situations, such as inadvertent whistles, simultaneous free throw violations, and correctable errors. However my previous paragraph only mentioned foul situations.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

It's possible. A1 scores and says, "Can't stop that!". B2: "F*** you!" Here is another example of offsetting technical fouls, without a fight.

However, because the personal foul was followed by a technical foul, both fouls must be penalized. The third foul in the sequence (the second technical foul) must be enforced after the previous two fouls, because the previous fouls were enforced, making it a false double foul situation. The POI principle only applies to true double foul situations or simultaneous foul situations under NFHS rules.

Disclaimer: POI also applies to other situations, such as inadvertent whistles, simultaneous free throw violations, and correctable errors. However my previous paragraph only mentioned foul situations.

There is no such thing as 'offsetting technical fouls'. Sometimes, the penalties offset, but that isn't what the fouls are called.

I believe your play is a double technical foul...both happened approximately the same time and were against each other. No FTs for the double T. Shoot the 1+1 normally.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

It's possible. A1 scores and says, "Can't stop that!". B2: "F*** you!" Here is another example of offsetting technical fouls, without a fight.
...

...

Two players jawing at each other enough to get T'd are going to be charged with a double technical. In the OP's situation, the second technical came 30 seconds after the first.

[bob jenkins]

[QUOTE=ilyazhito;1036121]It's possible. A1 scores and says, "Can't stop that!". B2: "F*** you!" Here is another example of offsetting technical fouls, without a fight.

However, because the personal foul was followed by a technical foul, both fouls must be penalized. The third foul in the sequence (the second technical foul) must be enforced after the previous two fouls, because the previous fouls were enforced, making it a false double foul situation./QUOTE]

If you are talking about your situation, and not the OP, I disagree. In your situation, you have a single foul, followed by a double foul. You don't need to try to "offset" the first two that happened. NO FTs for the double foul, and resume with the administration of the single foul.