The T That Wasn't

[bas2456]

Kicking myself after my game tonight. I really should have given a technical, not sure why I didn't.

Team A is losing by 20-25 points in the final minute. Coach A, who normally is pretty snarkily yappy, has been fairly quiet tonight. B1 shoots the second of two free throws, A1 rebounds. Coach A yells for a push in the back as his player throws the ball past his teammate and into the back court. The ball rolls all the way OOB. As I'm heading that way to administer the inbound, Coach A is still talking. I eventually issue the bench warning.

After the ball is inbounded and we're headed back up the floor, he says "get off your high horse". That's where I should have T'd him. I don't know what stopped me. 100% needed to be addressed.

Curious what similar story you may have, what comment you heard from coach or player that should have been addressed that wasn't?

[SNIPERBBB]

Sometimes things just dont trip your trigger until well after the moment has passed.

Not a possible T story but one play that sticks out to me even now is where we had a play in transition where A1 is bringing the ball up the court at full speed with B1 beside her. A2 comes flying at full speed jumps and may of gotten one foot down before colliding with B1 as she tried to set a screen. In the mess that follows as one of the players involved was hurt, none of us even had the thought of upgrading the foul until we were back in the locker room(which was really a closet) later. Still bugs me a bit

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Kicking myself after my game tonight. I really should have given a technical, not sure why I didn't.

Team A is losing by 20-25 points in the final minute. Coach A, who normally is pretty snarkily yappy, has been fairly quiet tonight. B1 shoots the second of two free throws, A1 rebounds. Coach A yells for a push in the back as his player throws the ball past his teammate and into the back court. The ball rolls all the way OOB. As I'm heading that way to administer the inbound, Coach A is still talking. I eventually issue the bench warning.

After the ball is inbounded and we're headed back up the floor, he says "get off your high horse". That's where I should have T'd him. I don't know what stopped me. 100% needed to be addressed.

Curious what similar story you may have, what comment you heard from coach or player that should have been addressed that wasn't?

A coach who losing by 20+ in the final minute is complaining to the officials? I would have told him to focus on his team and perhaps they wouldn’t be down so much.

[BillyMac]

One more often regrets the technical fouls that one doesn't give rather than the technical fouls one does give.

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by bas2456

100% needed to be addressed.

Yes, but a T is just one tool in your toolbox. There are a number of options for how to address this; Nevadaref gave you another approach. In the last minute, coach's team losing by 20-25, his remark is his first real step over the line that night ("fairly quiet")? I'd probably either ignore him or say something along Nevadaref's line.

I'm not afraid to issue Ts when warranted, but I try to consider the circumstances.

[Pantherdreams]

Had an opposite situation the other night. Game that was competitive early but turned into a blowout for team A after half time.

First quarte. Off a rebound there is a ball being tugged/pulled in a scrum/mess of Varsity girls in the paint. I'm trail (two person).

My partner blows the whistle and has a foul on A8. We are in bonus.

As I'm headed down and reporting is going on Coach A asks how there is a foul, not a jump ball? I tell him it wasn't my call and he'd have to ask my partner.

So he immediately barks across the floor to my partner "When does it become a jump ball? If there is one foul in there, there are 5. Just call the tie up"

Whole gym stops for a heartbeat as we are about to admin free throws and comment is in a gym that has gone quiet for free throws.

My partner stares at him but doesn't say anything. Coach walks away and we admin free throws. Game goes on. Turns into a blow out in 3rd quarter for A and coach doesn't say anything the rest of the way after the 1 comment in the 1st q.

At half time I mentioned that I felt like we should have reacted more strongly and was leaning T. Partner felt like it could have gone either way and he would have been ok with it. After game I was glad it went the way it did, as it all sorted itself out and we didn't set a tone or escalate the situation. Hindsight is always 20-20

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

At half time I mentioned that I felt like we should have reacted more strongly and was leaning T. Partner felt like it could have gone either way and he would have been ok with it. After game I was glad it went the way it did, as it all sorted itself out and we didn't set a tone or escalate the situation. Hindsight is always 20-20

I don't think I would have reacted to what he said. He wasn't attacking you. He wasn't saying the foul wasn't there. In fact, what he said probably wasn't incorrect. The only reason you even had to think about it is because the gym got quiet enough for it to really be heard.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by LRZ

Yes, but a T is just one tool in your toolbox. There are a number of options for how to address this; Nevadaref gave you another approach. In the last minute, coach's team losing by 20-25, his remark is his first real step over the line that night ("fairly quiet")? I'd probably either ignore him or say something along Nevadaref's line.



I'm not afraid to issue Ts when warranted, but I try to consider the circumstances.

Agree. If I’m the assigner watching the game, I don’t care either way. The T would absolutely be warranted, but on the other hand the coach probably wanted it for the attention factor at that point because he had nothing to lose. So if you don’t whack him there, you sort of “win” in a way.

Some call this “camp speak” but I’ve always thought it a good framework: “Does it fit, is it effective, and can it be defended?”

A “T” in the OP scenario could certainly be defended, but it’s of dubious effect and fit when the coach down by 20 in the last minute is just sounding off. So me, I might not dignify him with the call. But, meh, really kinda depends on the mood I’m in and/or what I know about the partners I’m working with. Either way not the kind of decision I’d lose any sleep over.



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[MattReferee]

I would just ignore him.....no need to engage in a conversation with him and ya never know maybe he was talking to crowd,player etc... ya did good and never question why you didn’t ring a coach up just know when you do they “coach” have earned it !! Did you talk with your crew and ask them what they thought afterwards ?

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by MattReferee

I would just ignore him.....no need to engage in a conversation with him and ya never know maybe he was talking to crowd,player etc... ya did good and never question why you didn’t ring a coach up just know when you do they “coach” have earned it !! Did you talk with your crew and ask them what they thought afterwards ?

I did. It was a soph prelim on a freezing cold night here. Pretty empty gym, though my partner said he didn't hear the "high horse" comment. He did mention that he thought I would have T'd him on the initial comments. I'm a big fan of the bench warning. It's been incredibly effective for me. I've only risen past it once, actually.

My partner agreed that I should have T'd after the high horse comments. Part of it, I think, is knowing the coach and his reputation with us as officials. He has it coming to him, that kinda thing, ya know?

EDIT: By the way, welcome to the forum! It's been an invaluable resource for me for 10 years. Enjoy!

[MattReferee]

coach is definitely lucky you were in the holiday Spirit and I totally agree with you knowing the circumstances crowd, reputation and also agree with the bench warning

[LRZ]

"'When does it become a jump ball? If there is one foul in there, there are 5. Just call the tie up.'"

I'll rephrase Camron Rust's comment: In fact, what he said probably was correct.

Especially if I anticipate a physical game, I may say to my partner in our pre-game, "Let's get in there quickly when we have a scrum, so no one gets hurt. And we can call the held ball, instead of a foul."

[UNIgiantslayers]

If he's got a reputation with me for being a jerk like that, I'm likely a lot less patient with him. I probably lean toward T but I've been accused of having a short fuse with them.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by LRZ

"'When does it become a jump ball? If there is one foul in there, there are 5. Just call the tie up.'"

I'll rephrase Camron Rust's comment: In fact, what he said probably was correct.

Especially if I anticipate a physical game, I may say to my partner in our pre-game, "Let's get in there quickly when we have a scrum, so no one gets hurt. And we can call the held ball, instead of a foul."

Great point.

I find thisa difference between when I do boys games and girls games. Pregame for boys games and any sort of contact stuff tends to have people saying things like the above or "don't let it get chippy but don't go looking for stuff to call" . Vs. girls games I'll have partners or crews where its more "i don't want 200 jump balls tonight lets get a couple fouls early and set a tone see if we can keep hands out of there" or "we've really got to protect the ball handler lets be tight on the hand contact early".

Not saying its right or wrong just a pattern I've noticed with people I work with in terms of similar issues with guys and girls games.

[LRZ]

As a sub-varsity official, I'm typically dealing with raging-hormonal boys, or awkward, still-growing boys and girls, so I can appreciate both pre-game perspectives (quick jump ball/early foul). But in many of my games, players seem to never learn: the latter attitude would result in 200 fouls! I'll take 200 held balls over 200 fouls any day! I often trot out a line that we need a board game spinner, not an AP arrow.