He wasn't set!!

slow whistle · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 04:42pm

BV game Fri night, A1 drives down the right side of the lane, B1 who had established LGP slides down the lane with him and takes it square in the chest, I have a clear PC foul...as I am reporting coach says to me "how can that be offensive, he wasn't set!" I just replied "coach he doesn't need to be "set" to draw a PC foul"...did not have any inclination to provide more than that at the time...after the game, my one partner and I are asking our significantly more experienced third partner how we did, etc, etc....his one comment to me "that one charge you called, i thought that was a block"

me: "why?"
him: "because he wasn't set"
me verbally: "ok thanks"
me internally "!@#$!@%#$%$@#%^"

He went on to say something to the effect that if you just call a block every time the guy isn't set, everyone in the gym will think you are right and nobody will say anything....I just bit my tongue...

JRutledge · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 04:45pm

Just say, "He was not in LGP." Leave it at that. If the coach is too dumb to know what that means, leave it alone.

I have learned in these situations to say less. You are not going to win an argument over the rule. If they do not know the rule, move on.

Peace

JugglingReferee · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 04:48pm

If your judgment has LGP being obtained, and then legal movement after that, then you did good.

The thing to wonder is if the 3rd guy thought LGP was obtained and maintained.

slow whistle · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 04:49pm

It just got me thinking about all the poor advice I'm sure I have gotten over the years and not thought twice about until I learned the hard way in a game situation, etc...just goes to show you that no matter how respected the source, it's best to do your own homework....

slow whistle · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 04:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

If your judgment has LGP being obtained, and then legal movement after that, then you did good.

The thing to wonder is if the 3rd guy thought LGP was obtained and maintained.

Possibly, but the more he talked the more it sounded to me like he was more concerned with "everyone in the gym" not questioning you if you just call a block when the player isn't "set"....the term LGP was never mentioned by him...

DonInKansas · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 06:10pm

The title of this made me think I was in the Baseball Forum.

Quote:

his one comment to me "that one charge you called, i thought that was a block"

There's no question, so you should have no answer.

BktBallRef · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 08:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DonInKansas

There's no question, so you should have no answer.

I totally and completely disagree.

If a fellow official is wrong. EXPLAIN IT TO HIM! If he still doesn't get it, EXPLAIN IT AGAIN!

Guys like this make all of our jobs more difficult. When they say something stupid and we don't attempt to correct them, we only add to the problem!

BktBallRef · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 08:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by slow whistle

BV game Fri night, A1 drives down the right side of the lane, B1 who had established LGP slides down the lane with him and takes it square in the chest, I have a clear PC foul...as I am reporting coach says to me "how can that be offensive, he wasn't set!" I just replied "coach he doesn't need to be "set" to draw a PC foul"....

Just something to think about:

If this was an airborne shooter, YES, the defender does need to be set before the shooter leaves the floor. If he slides after the shooter leaps, that's a block.

DonInKansas · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 08:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

I totally and completely disagree.

If a fellow official is wrong. EXPLAIN IT TO HIM! If he still doesn't get it, EXPLAIN IT AGAIN!

Guys like this make all of our jobs more difficult. When they say something stupid and we don't attempt to correct them, we only add to the problem!

Completely my fault. I misread the post and thought the coach was saying this.

I withdraw my previous statement.

*facepalm*

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 11:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Just say, "He was not in LGP." Leave it at that. If the coach is too dumb to know what that means, leave it alone.

I have learned in these situations to say less. You are not going to win an argument over the rule. If they do not know the rule, move on.

Peace

Rut:

Didn't you mean to say: "He was in a LGP."

MTD, Sr.

JRutledge · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 11:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Rut:

Didn't you mean to say: "He was in a LGP."

MTD, Sr.

Yeah something like that.

Peace

wbrown · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Feb 09, 2009, 11:30pm

A1 driving across the lane B1 moving in the same direction (parallel) to the baseline. A1 turns and lower his shoulder into B1 and drive right over him. Block, Charge, no call?

Adam · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2009, 01:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbrown

A1 driving across the lane B1 moving in the same direction (parallel) to the baseline. A1 turns and lower his shoulder into B1 and drive right over him. Block, Charge, no call?

Why would it be a block? I see an easy PC when I read this.

just another ref · #14 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2009, 01:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Just something to think about:

If this was an airborne shooter, YES, the defender does need to be set before the shooter leaves the floor. If he slides after the shooter leaps, that's a block.

How so? Defender is sliding to maintain his LGP. Dribbler picks up his dribble and jumps into him, trying to draw a foul. Defender continues to slide, parallel to the dribbler's original path.

Nevadaref · #15 (**permalink**) Tue Feb 10, 2009, 02:37am

Quote:

Originally Posted by slow whistle

BV game Fri night, A1 drives down the right side of the lane, B1 who had established LGP slides down the lane with him and takes it square in the chest, I have a clear PC foul...as I am reporting coach says to me "how can that be offensive, he wasn't set!" I just replied "coach he doesn't need to be "set" to draw a PC foul"...did not have any inclination to provide more than that at the time...after the game, my one partner and I are asking our significantly more experienced third partner how we did, etc, etc....his one comment to me "that one charge you called, i thought that was a block"

me: "why?"
him: "because he wasn't set"
me verbally: "ok thanks"
me internally "!@#$!@%#$%$@#%^"

He went on to say something to the effect that if you just call a block every time the guy isn't set, everyone in the gym will think you are right and nobody will say anything....I just bit my tongue...

As you gain more experience, you will come to find that "significantly more experienced" does not equate to being a better official.

Just wait until Jurassic gets here and sees that guy's advice to you concerning the crowd's reaction to calls.

I would call that official a coward, but someone would surely get upset with me, so I'll just use the word spineless.