The T That Wasn't

[LRZ]

Originally Posted by bas2456

100% needed to be addressed.

Yes, but a T is just one tool in your toolbox. There are a number of options for how to address this; Nevadaref gave you another approach. In the last minute, coach's team losing by 20-25, his remark is his first real step over the line that night ("fairly quiet")? I'd probably either ignore him or say something along Nevadaref's line.

I'm not afraid to issue Ts when warranted, but I try to consider the circumstances.

[Pantherdreams]

Had an opposite situation the other night. Game that was competitive early but turned into a blowout for team A after half time.

First quarte. Off a rebound there is a ball being tugged/pulled in a scrum/mess of Varsity girls in the paint. I'm trail (two person).

My partner blows the whistle and has a foul on A8. We are in bonus.

As I'm headed down and reporting is going on Coach A asks how there is a foul, not a jump ball? I tell him it wasn't my call and he'd have to ask my partner.

So he immediately barks across the floor to my partner "When does it become a jump ball? If there is one foul in there, there are 5. Just call the tie up"

Whole gym stops for a heartbeat as we are about to admin free throws and comment is in a gym that has gone quiet for free throws.

My partner stares at him but doesn't say anything. Coach walks away and we admin free throws. Game goes on. Turns into a blow out in 3rd quarter for A and coach doesn't say anything the rest of the way after the 1 comment in the 1st q.

At half time I mentioned that I felt like we should have reacted more strongly and was leaning T. Partner felt like it could have gone either way and he would have been ok with it. After game I was glad it went the way it did, as it all sorted itself out and we didn't set a tone or escalate the situation. Hindsight is always 20-20

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

At half time I mentioned that I felt like we should have reacted more strongly and was leaning T. Partner felt like it could have gone either way and he would have been ok with it. After game I was glad it went the way it did, as it all sorted itself out and we didn't set a tone or escalate the situation. Hindsight is always 20-20

I don't think I would have reacted to what he said. He wasn't attacking you. He wasn't saying the foul wasn't there. In fact, what he said probably wasn't incorrect. The only reason you even had to think about it is because the gym got quiet enough for it to really be heard.

[LRZ]

"'When does it become a jump ball? If there is one foul in there, there are 5. Just call the tie up.'"

I'll rephrase Camron Rust's comment: In fact, what he said probably was correct.

Especially if I anticipate a physical game, I may say to my partner in our pre-game, "Let's get in there quickly when we have a scrum, so no one gets hurt. And we can call the held ball, instead of a foul."

[UNIgiantslayers]

If he's got a reputation with me for being a jerk like that, I'm likely a lot less patient with him. I probably lean toward T but I've been accused of having a short fuse with them.

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by LRZ

"'When does it become a jump ball? If there is one foul in there, there are 5. Just call the tie up.'"

I'll rephrase Camron Rust's comment: In fact, what he said probably was correct.

Especially if I anticipate a physical game, I may say to my partner in our pre-game, "Let's get in there quickly when we have a scrum, so no one gets hurt. And we can call the held ball, instead of a foul."

Great point.

I find thisa difference between when I do boys games and girls games. Pregame for boys games and any sort of contact stuff tends to have people saying things like the above or "don't let it get chippy but don't go looking for stuff to call" . Vs. girls games I'll have partners or crews where its more "i don't want 200 jump balls tonight lets get a couple fouls early and set a tone see if we can keep hands out of there" or "we've really got to protect the ball handler lets be tight on the hand contact early".

Not saying its right or wrong just a pattern I've noticed with people I work with in terms of similar issues with guys and girls games.

[LRZ]

As a sub-varsity official, I'm typically dealing with raging-hormonal boys, or awkward, still-growing boys and girls, so I can appreciate both pre-game perspectives (quick jump ball/early foul). But in many of my games, players seem to never learn: the latter attitude would result in 200 fouls! I'll take 200 held balls over 200 fouls any day! I often trot out a line that we need a board game spinner, not an AP arrow.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by LRZ

As a sub-varsity official, I'm typically dealing with raging-hormonal boys, or awkward, still-growing boys and girls, so I can appreciate both pre-game perspectives (quick jump ball/early foul). But in many of my games, players seem to never learn: the latter attitude would result in 200 fouls! I'll take 200 held balls over 200 fouls any day! I often trot out a line that we need a board game spinner, not an AP arrow.

They will learn. Players want to play. If they keep fouling out, they'll adapt so they can stay in the game. That only works, however, if the fouls get called. If you don't call them and foul them out, they have no reason to learn.

Plus, you can't get to 200 fouls unless each team has over 20 players on the roster. Hey, your game could be even shorter if you foul them all out by the 3rd quarter!

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by LRZ

Yes, but a T is just one tool in your toolbox. There are a number of options for how to address this; Nevadaref gave you another approach. In the last minute, coach's team losing by 20-25, his remark is his first real step over the line that night ("fairly quiet")? I'd probably either ignore him or say something along Nevadaref's line.



I'm not afraid to issue Ts when warranted, but I try to consider the circumstances.

Agree. If I’m the assigner watching the game, I don’t care either way. The T would absolutely be warranted, but on the other hand the coach probably wanted it for the attention factor at that point because he had nothing to lose. So if you don’t whack him there, you sort of “win” in a way.

Some call this “camp speak” but I’ve always thought it a good framework: “Does it fit, is it effective, and can it be defended?”

A “T” in the OP scenario could certainly be defended, but it’s of dubious effect and fit when the coach down by 20 in the last minute is just sounding off. So me, I might not dignify him with the call. But, meh, really kinda depends on the mood I’m in and/or what I know about the partners I’m working with. Either way not the kind of decision I’d lose any sleep over.



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