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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 10:17am
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OOB violation?

Loose ball near sideline. A1 retrieves the ball with both feet on the floor, but his momentum is carrying him OOB.
A1 then (a) pushes the ball to the floor, (b) throws the ball onto the court, steps OOB, legally re-establishes himself back on the playing court, grabs the ball and begins to dribble. (c) begins a dribble before going OOB, comes back in and continues to dribble.

Thanks in advance!
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 11:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee View Post
Loose ball near sideline. A1 retrieves the ball with both feet on the floor, but his momentum is carrying him OOB.
A1 then (a) pushes the ball to the floor, (b) throws the ball onto the court, steps OOB, legally re-establishes himself back on the playing court, grabs the ball and begins to dribble. (c) begins a dribble before going OOB, comes back in and continues to dribble.

Thanks in advance!
(a) legal. edit: Now also illegal dribble / double dribble given the clarification in post 12

(b) illegal dribble / double dribble

(c) legal

Some version of this is in the case book, iirc.

Last edited by bob jenkins; Wed Dec 11, 2019 at 08:51am.
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 01:16pm
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As Bob said ..

7.1.1 SITUATION D

A1 jumps from inbounds to retrieve an errant pass near a boundary line. A1 catches the ball while in the air and tosses it back to the court. A1 lands out of bounds and (a) is the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds; (b) returns inbounds and immediately dribbles the ball; or (c) picks up the ball after returning to the court and then begins a dribble.

Legal in (a) and (b). Illegal in (c) as the controlled toss of the ball to the court by A1 constitutes the start of a dribble, dribbling a second time after picking up the ball is an illegal dribble violation. (4-15-5, 4-15-6d, 4-35, 9-5)
2019-20 NFHS Basketball Case Book - NFHS 2019
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 01:19pm
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Though I would have to say if the player starts a dribble then goes out of bounds and comes back in and still dribble, that would be an OOB violation as while the player is a dribbler, he cannot go out of bounds regardless of of he's touching the ball or not.

ART. 1... A player must not cause the ball to go out of bounds.

NOTE: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 01:41pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
Though I would have to say if the player starts a dribble then goes out of bounds and comes back in and still dribble, that would be an OOB violation as while the player is a dribbler, he cannot go out of bounds regardless of of he's touching the ball or not.

ART. 1... A player must not cause the ball to go out of bounds.

NOTE: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.
It could qualify as an interrupted dribble and thus not be a violation.
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 02:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
Though I would have to say if the player starts a dribble then goes out of bounds and comes back in and still dribble, that would be an OOB violation as while the player is a dribbler, he cannot go out of bounds regardless of of he's touching the ball or not.

ART. 1... A player must not cause the ball to go out of bounds.

NOTE: The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.
(A), (B), AND (C) in the OP are all the beginning of dribbles. Given that it was the momentum of chasing the loose ball (I assume) that led to going OOB, the rule on stepping on the boundary while dribbling does not apply or is superceded by the momentum exception, or it's an interrupted dribble, or ...
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 03:41pm
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Interrupted Dribble ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
It could qualify as an interrupted dribble and thus not be a violation.
4-15-6-D: Out-of-bounds violation does not apply on the player involved in
the interrupted dribble.

4-15-5: An interrupted dribble occurs when the ball is loose after
deflecting off the dribbler or after it momentarily gets away from the
dribbler.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Dec 10, 2019 at 03:44pm.
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 03:48pm
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Does Not Apply ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB View Post
The dribbler has committed a violation if he/she steps on or outside a boundary, even though he/she is not touching the ball while he/she is out of bounds.
9-3-1-Note does not apply to an interrupted dribble.
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 04:10pm
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words matter

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee View Post
Loose ball near sideline. A1 retrieves the ball with both feet on the floor, but his momentum is carrying him OOB.
A1 then (a) pushes the ball to the floor, (b) throws the ball onto the court, steps OOB, legally re-establishes himself back on the playing court, grabs the ball and begins to dribble. (c) begins a dribble before going OOB, comes back in and continues to dribble.

Thanks in advance!
a. illegal
b. illegal
c. legal if dribble was interrupted

In a and b when you say A1 "retrieves" the ball, I have to assume he has control. Pushing or throwing the ball to the court constitutes a dribble. Returning to the court, "grabbing" the ball and dribbling again would be a violation. He could "continue" the dribble as in c without violating.
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 04:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
a. illegal
b. illegal
c. legal if dribble was interrupted

In a and b when you say A1 "retrieves" the ball, I have to assume he has control. Pushing or throwing the ball to the court constitutes a dribble. Returning to the court, "grabbing" the ball and dribbling again would be a violation. He could "continue" the dribble as in c without violating.
a. Is legal. Player retrieves ball..momentum carrying him OB. Player pushes ball to floor. That’s all it says. Legal.

Your applying facts of sit b. No returning to court, grabbing ball and dribbling in sit a.

Last edited by BigCat; Tue Dec 10, 2019 at 04:29pm.
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 04:59pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
a. Is legal. Player retrieves ball..momentum carrying him OB. Player pushes ball to floor. Thats all it says. Legal.

Your applying facts of sit b. No returning to court, grabbing ball and dribbling in sit a.
Okay. Even so, by dictionary definition, "retrieve" means to regain possession. Thumpferee's opening statement said A1 retrieved the ball as his momentum was carrying him OOB. It can be argued that A1, with possession of the ball with both feet on the court, who then pushes the ball to the floor has started a legal dribble and then violated by stepping out of bounds. Compare with 7.1.1 Situation B.
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 05:36pm
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Sorry for confusion!

Both a and b have A1 stepping OOB, coming back in, grabbing the ball, and then dribbling.

From what I gather, both are the beginning of a dribble while going OOB. When A1 returns to the court and grabs the ball, he cannot legally dribble again. But, he could continue to dribble.

If A1 tipped the ball back into the court, he can do both?

The reason for the question is, I was told A1 cannot dribble at all after coming back onto the court.

I also assume there is no difference between being on the court or in the air as the CB play refers.

Tx
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 06:15pm
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Lets Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
Compare with 7.1.1 Situation B.
7.1.1 SITUATION B: A1 blocks a pass near the end line. The ball falls to the floor inbounds, but A1, who is off balance, steps off the court. A1 returns inbounds, secures control of the ball and dribbles. RULING: Legal. A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did. This situation is similar to one in which A1 makes a try from under the basket and momentum carries A1 off the court. If the try is unsuccessful, A1 may come back onto the court and regain control since A1 did not leave the court voluntarily and did not have control of the ball when he/she did.
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Old Tue Dec 10, 2019, 06:18pm
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Classic Reminder Phrase ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee View Post
... assume there is no difference between being on the court or in the air ...
It depends on where you were before becoming airborne.

You are where you were until you get where you're going.
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Old Wed Dec 11, 2019, 08:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee View Post
Both a and b have A1 stepping OOB, coming back in, grabbing the ball, and then dribbling.
Sorry -- that's not how I read the OP. And, it changes my answer in post 2 above. I'll edit it.

Now, both (a) and (b) are the same situation. What matters is did A1 "retrieve" (i.e., "control") the ball before pushing / throwing it to the floor? Would you have granted a TO if requested at that precise time (and if you were quick enough to react, etc.)? If so, then this action is the start of a dribble, and all "continuing to dribble" and "ending the dribble" rules apply.

Or, did the ball just deflect off of A to the floor? Now, it's not a dribble and A can then catch the ball and now can start a dribble.

It's the same as we see when A1 passes to A2 and A2 does not catch it cleanly. 99% of the time, this is NOT the start of a dribble and A2 can gain control of the ball and then dribble.
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