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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 02, 2019, 09:46pm
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Leaving the bench prematurely?

A fellow official saw this in a college game the other day:
With time running out in the 4th quarter, team A takes the lead with 2 seconds left on the clock. With the excitement of their team taking the lead, some of the fans and a couple of the players (bench personnel) run onto the floor to celebrate the victory (prematurely). What do you do as the referee?
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Dec 02, 2019, 10:14pm
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If itís a NFHS game, immediately upon the score Iím looking for the opposing timeout if they have one. If they do, grant it, note the exact time on the clock, replace time if you have definite knowledge, and clean up but otherwise ignore the shenanigans as it occurred basically simultaneously with the timeout call. Some may disagree but thatís how I would handle it and/or discuss it with my crew.

If the opposing team doesnít have a timeout or chooses not to use one, or if it isnít called absolutely immediately, then I have a bench technical per 10-5-2.

Standing by for the NCAA interps of this case. Itís a little different there since the clock automatically stops in this situation.


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Old Mon Dec 02, 2019, 10:34pm
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Fans running onto the court is an administrative technical foul (10.2.8.d). The players coming onto the court is a class B technical foul charged to each player, and a class B technical foul charged to the head coach (10.4.2.h). Shoot two free throws (one for the administrative technical foul and one for the class B technical foul) and return to the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for B with 2 seconds left with the right to run the endline.
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Old Mon Dec 02, 2019, 10:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
If itís a NFHS game, immediately upon the score Iím looking for the opposing timeout if they have one. If they do, grant it, note the exact time on the clock, replace time if you have definite knowledge, and clean up but otherwise ignore the shenanigans as it occurred basically simultaneously with the timeout call. Some may disagree but thatís how I would handle it and/or discuss it with my crew.

If the opposing team doesnít have a timeout or chooses not to use one, or if it isnít called absolutely immediately, then I have a bench technical per 10-5-2.

Standing by for the NCAA interps of this case. Itís a little different there since the clock automatically stops in this situation.


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Would Rule 10-6-5 (Head Coach'e Rule) cover it better being that the players didn't leave the bench during a fight situation?
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Old Mon Dec 02, 2019, 10:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Fans running onto the court is an administrative technical foul (10.2.8.d). The players coming onto the court is a class B technical foul charged to each player, and a class B technical foul charged to the head coach (10.4.2.h). Shoot two free throws (one for the administrative technical foul and one for the class B technical foul) and return to the point of interruption, which is a throw-in for B with 2 seconds left with the right to run the endline.
Is this the NCAA interpretation?
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Old Mon Dec 02, 2019, 10:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jqb12 View Post
Would Rule 10-6-5 (Head Coach'e Rule) cover it better being that the players didn't leave the bench during a fight situation?


Youíre conflating 10-5-2 with 10-5-5. 10-5-2 is adequate here and has nothing to do with a fight/fighting.


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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 03, 2019, 08:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post

Standing by for the NCAA interps of this case.
From the NCAAM case book; empahsis added (NCAAW is at least substatially the same). In 99% of the cases, the actions do not stop the ball from being put in play -- there's a TO, or a monitor review, or the team members don't get far enough on the floor to stop the long pass by the other team, or ...

A.R. 263. Team B leads, 67-66. A1ís two-point try for goal is successful, but
there is no indication that time has expired. Assuming that the successful try
was a game-ending and winning goal:
1. Bench personnel from Team A; or
2. Fans from Team A go onto the playing court to celebrate.
RULING: When the celebration causes a delay by preventing the ball
from being promptly made live
or prevents continuous play:
1: A CLASS B technical foul shall be assessed to the head coach of
Team A. The coachís technical foul does not count toward the team
foul total but does count toward the coachís ejection.
2: An administrative technical foul shall be assessed to the offending
team. This administrative technical foul does not apply to the team
foul total.
Any player from Team B shall attempt one free throw and play shall
resume at the point of interruption. When the celebration does not
delay or interfere with play, the celebration shall be ignored.

(Rule 10-2.8.d and Penalty, and 10-4.2.h and Penalty)
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Old Tue Dec 03, 2019, 09:02am
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Thank You
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 03, 2019, 09:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Youíre conflating 10-5-2 with 10-5-5. 10-5-2 is adequate here and has nothing to do with a fight/fighting.


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OK, I got it
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 03, 2019, 11:20am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
From the NCAAM case book; empahsis added (NCAAW is at least substatially the same). In 99% of the cases, the actions do not stop the ball from being put in play -- there's a TO, or a monitor review, or the team members don't get far enough on the floor to stop the long pass by the other team, or ...

A.R. 263. Team B leads, 67-66. A1ís two-point try for goal is successful, but
there is no indication that time has expired. Assuming that the successful try
was a game-ending and winning goal:
1. Bench personnel from Team A; or
2. Fans from Team A go onto the playing court to celebrate.
RULING: When the celebration causes a delay by preventing the ball
from being promptly made live
or prevents continuous play:
1: A CLASS B technical foul shall be assessed to the head coach of
Team A. The coachís technical foul does not count toward the team
foul total but does count toward the coachís ejection.
2: An administrative technical foul shall be assessed to the offending
team. This administrative technical foul does not apply to the team
foul total.
Any player from Team B shall attempt one free throw and play shall
resume at the point of interruption. When the celebration does not
delay or interfere with play, the celebration shall be ignored.

(Rule 10-2.8.d and Penalty, and 10-4.2.h and Penalty)
Why is there only one free throw? AFAIK, both Class B and administrative technical fouls have a 1 free throw penalty, so if both happen simultaneously, it would only make sense to enforce both fouls.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 03, 2019, 12:06pm
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Bench Personnel ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
10-5-2 is adequate here and has nothing to do with a fight/fighting.
10-5-2:Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not:
Enter the court unless by permission of an official to attend an
injured player.
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Old Tue Dec 03, 2019, 12:45pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
Why is there only one free throw? AFAIK, both Class B and administrative technical fouls have a 1 free throw penalty, so if both happen simultaneously, it would only make sense to enforce both fouls.
The two cases in the AR are separate. In one, the bench (and no fans) goes out; in two the fans (and no bench) goes out.

That said, if the both went out, the first would stop all action, so the second wouldn't further delay the game.
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Old Tue Dec 03, 2019, 01:14pm
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That makes sense, however there is no current A.R. that addresses both situations happening as the OP describes. My solution might resolve the OP situation.
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Old Tue Dec 03, 2019, 02:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
That makes sense, however there is no current A.R. that addresses both situations happening as the OP describes. My solution might resolve the OP situation.
We don't need AR's that cover all possible combinations of events. If we did, the book would be the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica.
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Old Tue Dec 03, 2019, 02:12pm
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And Who's Jiminy Cricket ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
We don't need AR's that cover all possible combinations of events. If we did, the book would be the size of the Encyclopedia Britannica.
What's an Encyclopedia Britannica?

https://youtu.be/pP4aIH9s_ZI

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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Dec 03, 2019 at 02:23pm.
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