The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 26, 2019, 05:04pm
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 625
Playing with less than 5 players

At a Tournament today, White starts the game with 5 players. at 5:00 mark of Q1, coach pulls two players and wants to play the remainder of the quarter with 3 players to punish his team for poor practice habits.

Is this legal? I say NO!

My understanding is you can play with less than 5 players (After starting with 5) if the team has no eligible subs due to injury or DQ.

BTW, the officials allowed the coach to do this
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 26, 2019, 05:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,581
Not legal.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 26, 2019, 09:43pm
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,317
Quote:
Originally Posted by the_rookie View Post
at a tournament today, white starts the game with 5 players. At 5:00 mark of q1, coach pulls two players and wants to play the remainder of the quarter with 3 players to punish his team for poor practice habits.

Is this legal? I say no!

My understanding is you can play with less than 5 players (after starting with 5) if the team has no eligible subs due to injury or dq.

Btw, the officials allowed the coach to do this
3-1-1
3.1.1
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
www.myvirtualofficialsassociation.com
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 27, 2019, 12:52pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,926
Five Players ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
3.1.1
3.1.1 SITUATION: After six players have been disqualified, Team A has only four who are eligible to continue in the game as players. In a gesture of fair play, the coach of Team B indicates a desire to withdraw a player so that each team will have four players on the court. RULING: This is not permissible. Team B must have five players participating as long as it has that number available. If no substitute is available, a team must continue with fewer than five players. When only one player remains to participate, that team shall forfeit the game unless the referee believes this team still has an opportunity to win the game.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 27, 2019, 01:10pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,926
Five Trumps Sit A Tick ...

Regarding the necessity of playing with five players if a team has five players eligible, it is my understanding that in cases where the fifth participant is on the bench waiting to "sit a tick" (and thus ineligible at the time) the "must have five players participating as long as it has that number available" rule overrides the "must not reenter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his replacement" rule. i.e. "must sit a tick".

3-3-4: A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game shall
not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been
started properly following his/her replacement.

Casebook Play 8.2 SITUATION B: A1 is fouled and will be shooting two free throws. After A1’s first free-throw attempt, B6 (Team B’s only remaining eligible substitute) replaces B2. A1’s second free-throw attempt is unsuccessful. During rebounding action for A1’s missed second free-throw attempt, and before the clock starts, A1 pushes B3 in the back causing B3 to roll an ankle. Team B is in the bonus. B3 is unable to immediately continue playing. Team B requests and is granted a time out in order to allow B3 to recover from the ankle injury so as to remain in the game. B3 is still not able to play after the time out has ended. RULING: B2 may return to the game and replace B3 and shoot B3’s free throw attempts despite having been replaced since he/she is the only available substitute. (3-3-4)
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Nov 27, 2019 at 05:50pm.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 27, 2019, 01:48pm
TODO: creative title here
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,243
Gotta have 5 players as long as there are 5 players eligible to play (not injured/disqualified/whatever).

However, there's no rule saying what those 5 players have to do while they're on the court... "Coach, they have to be on the court, but you can make them just stand off to the side and not get involved in play"

I'm not saying I'd tell a coach this, but I'm not NOT saying I would either.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 28, 2019, 11:47pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,411
Key word is “available.” You’re “available” if the coach is mad at you and wants you to sit. You’re “not available” if you get blood on your jersey and need to run to the locker room for a few minutes to change into a clean jersey; your team can play with four or less as long as you remain “not available.”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 29, 2019, 12:44pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,666
CB Play 8.2, Situation B.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Regarding the necessity of playing with five players if a team has five players eligible, it is my understanding that in cases where the fifth participant is on the bench waiting to "sit a tick" (and thus ineligible at the time) the "must have five players participating as long as it has that number available" rule overrides the "must not reenter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his replacement" rule. i.e. "must sit a tick".

3-3-4: A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game shall
not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been
started properly following his/her replacement.

Casebook Play 8.2 SITUATION B: A1 is fouled and will be shooting two free throws. After A1’s first free-throw attempt, B6 (Team B’s only remaining eligible substitute) replaces B2. A1’s second free-throw attempt is unsuccessful. During rebounding action for A1’s missed second free-throw attempt, and before the clock starts, A1 pushes B3 in the back causing B3 to roll an ankle. Team B is in the bonus. B3 is unable to immediately continue playing. Team B requests and is granted a time out in order to allow B3 to recover from the ankle injury so as to remain in the game. B3 is still not able to play after the time out has ended. RULING: B2 may return to the game and replace B3 and shoot B3’s free throw attempts despite having been replaced since he/she is the only available substitute. (3-3-4)

NFHS Basketball Casebook Play 8.2 SITUATION B (Page 62 of the 2019-20 NFHS Basketball Casebook.): The Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Casebook Play (!

The 2019-20 Edition of the NFHS Casebook references R3-S3-A4 and R2-S3.

2019-20 NFHS Basketaball Rules Book (Page 23) R3-S3-A4: "A player who has been replaced, or directed to leave the game must not re-enter before the next opportunity to substitute after the clock has been started properly following his/her replacement."

2019-20 NFHS Basketaball Rules Book (Page 16) R2-S3 (better known as the "god rule"): "The referee shall make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules."

Surprisingly, when I wrote this Casebook Play and its RULING in January 2008, I did not reference R2-S3 (which has been this Rule and Section in the NBC, NFHS, and NCAA Men's/Women's Rules since "The Ancient Days") or what is now R3-S3-A4 (I am not going to climb up into "The Attic" to check if this years's Section and Article were the same in the 2007-08 Rules Book), BUT I did reference reference what is still R3-S1-A1.

2019-20 NFHS Basketball Rules Book (Page 21) R3-S1-A1: "Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain. NOTE: A team must begin the game with five players, but if it has no substitutes to replace disqualified or injured players, it must continue with fewer than five. When there is only one player participating for a team, the team shall forfeit the game, unless the referee believes that team has an opportunity to win the game."

It was Mary Struckhoff's (the NFHS Rules Editor at the time) doing that R3-S3-A4, but it has always been my humble opinion that R3-S1-A1 is the controlling Rule and that it trumps R3-S3-A4. I could riff on why this is the correct Rules reference but that is a discussion for another time and I want to get back to watching the Toledo (my wife's alma mater) at Central Michigan football game with my better half.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri Nov 29, 2019, 01:13pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 17,926
Keep It Simple Stupid ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
NFHS Basketball Casebook Play 8.2 SITUATION B (Page 62 of the 2019-20 NFHS Basketball Casebook.): The Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Casebook Play ...
Yadah, Yadah, Yadah.

A former interpreter of ours simply stated it as, "Five trumps sit a tick."

I guess that he played a lot of bridge.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Fri Nov 29, 2019 at 03:23pm.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Players stepping out of the playing court while dribling christianH Basketball 13 Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:38pm
Playing w/ 4 players? zebraman Basketball 3 Sun Nov 19, 2006 09:20am
Players playing outside geographical boundries eke98632 Baseball 5 Mon Jun 14, 2004 08:04pm
Playing with 4 players Ricejock Basketball 13 Tue Feb 04, 2003 08:13am
playing with 4 Nevadaref Basketball 11 Fri Nov 15, 2002 09:26am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:56pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1