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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 25, 2019, 02:24pm
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The obvious foul was the commentators and everyone on the Intarwebs screaming about the officials for calling a foul on the player that was "blown up" when that wasn't at all what was called.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 25, 2019, 03:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Do you have a camera angle that matches the calling official's view?
Nope. Do you?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 25, 2019, 04:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
Nope. Do you?
I'm trying to figure out the reason for this comment:

"Still don’t see an obvious push-off by white #10"

I don't see any posts in this thread where somebody said they saw an obvious push-off.

So if you are disagreeing with the official's call, what basis do you have since you don't have his same angle of the play?

--Yep, just re-checked, and not one person called it an obvious foul on #10.
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Last edited by Raymond; Mon Nov 25, 2019 at 04:22pm.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 26, 2019, 02:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I'm trying to figure out the reason for this comment:

"Still don’t see an obvious push-off by white #10" Well JRut posted another video with zoomed-in video and I was responding to that. I don't see an obvious push-off by white #10 from the main broadcast angle or the zoomed in alternate angle.

I don't see any posts in this thread where somebody said they saw an obvious push-off. Me either.

So if you are disagreeing with the official's call, what basis do you have since you don't have his same angle of the play? From the angles we have the obvious (elephant) foul on this play is pushing through the screen. A push-off foul by white #10 doesn't appear to be obvious (an ant). If we get another angle from the officials viewpoint then of course I might revise my opinion. But from the angles we have there is not an obvious foul by white #10 on this play.

--Yep, just re-checked, and not one person called it an obvious foul on #10.
^
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 26, 2019, 03:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
^
Well if you cannot see the play from his angle, then you are not in a position to say it was an ant. You don't know what kind of contact occurred by #10.

When you make it a point to say you don't see an obvious foul call when nobody else said there was obvious foul, it seems like you're just trying to denigrate the judgment of the calling official

Just my opinion based on years of being around referees who like to sneak diss other officials, especially college officials who are from the same area of the country.

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Last edited by Raymond; Tue Nov 26, 2019 at 03:07pm.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Nov 26, 2019, 03:57pm
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I will agree the angle is not great, but to me, it is very clear he pushes the player into the ball handler. I say that because of how the defender fell. If you wanted to bump into someone, you do not fall like that or you are more prepared for that contact. The defender clearly does not look like he thought he was going to run into the ball handler. It was subtle, but to me very obvious even from that angle. I would have liked to have seen the other angle to confirm the call better, but I think this was a very solid call. The official is standing right there.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 27, 2019, 12:29am
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Whether it is CLEAR he pushed off, it is certainly reasonable to SUSPECT he pushed off. The coach went apeshit and the announcers made fools out of themselves over something they didn't understand, not the call itself.

Put those 2 idiots out on the floor and let me comment. Then we'll see how many egregious errors they make.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 27, 2019, 08:03pm
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Who was the foul on? I can see eyes rolling, however. . .

We give lip service ad nauseam to communicate, communicate, communicate. I have no idea what the NCAA manual says about communication at the spot of the foul but I know what the NFHS manual says. Even so, it has become so "trendy" at either level for some officials to communicate the absolute minimum at the spot of the foul. If the official had taken just one step out on the floor, given a brief "bird-dog" indicating that the foul was on #10 followed by the charge/push signal and then the TC signal, so much unnecessary controversy could have been avoided and perhaps the technical as well. I am amused how officials refuse to point just one time when necessary to communicate who the foul was on but when a dribbler steps on a boundary line, officials will run over, sometimes getting down on one knee and point three, four maybe five times so everyone in the entire arena and the entire TV audience knows exactly the precise spot where the player's foot or the ball touched the line. Good grief!

Last edited by billyu2; Wed Nov 27, 2019 at 08:06pm.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 27, 2019, 11:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
We give lip service ad nauseam to communicate, communicate, communicate. I have no idea what the NCAA manual says about communication at the spot of the foul but I know what the NFHS manual says. Even so, it has become so "trendy" at either level for some officials to communicate the absolute minimum at the spot of the foul. If the official had taken just one step out on the floor, given a brief "bird-dog" indicating that the foul was on #10 followed by the charge/push signal and then the TC signal, so much unnecessary controversy could have been avoided and perhaps the technical as well.
Bird dogging is very passe. And it is still in the book but this to me would not have been the situation to use it. For one the call is quick and if he took time then he would have looked unsure. Also the coach went off immediately, that still would have happened. And it was clear to me that the coach realized he was wrong, because he calmed down very quickly. It was almost like it never happened if you saw his expression.


Quote:
Originally Posted by billyu2 View Post
I am amused how officials refuse to point just one time when necessary to communicate who the foul was on but when a dribbler steps on a boundary line, officials will run over, sometimes getting down on one knee and point three, four maybe five times so everyone in the entire arena and the entire TV audience knows exactly the precise spot where the player's foot or the ball touched the line. Good grief!
OK, but bird dogging is only optional. They got rid of that as a requirement probably over 10 years ago. It looked silly for the most part. Officials use their voice now. When I call fouls, players and coaches hear me. It is not hard. And let us not exaggerate. I do not see officials do that on any regular basis, especially at that level. There might be some old-timers that once did that like the Burr, Higgins or even Valentine, but those guys did it for 30 years. The guys today hardly are very demonstrative on any call. Yes, maybe a PC foul, but not on an out of bounds call.

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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Wed Nov 27, 2019, 11:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Well if you cannot see the play from his angle, then you are not in a position to say it was an ant. You don't know what kind of contact occurred by #10.
Oh so no one can comment on plays where we don't have the angle of the referee? Get the fu*k outta here. And I'm commenting based on the angles we have, which I have been very clear on. Stop being obtuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
When you make it a point to say you don't see an obvious foul call when nobody else said there was obvious foul, it seems like you're just trying to denigrate the judgment of the calling official
The calling official has an excellent resume and is a good official. Saying I think he missed this call is NOT the same as a personal attack on the official. You know that, and you should stop insinuating I'm doing something wrong here.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 28, 2019, 12:00am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
...







The calling official has an excellent resume and is a good official. Saying I think he missed this call is NOT the same as a personal attack on the official. You know that, and you should stop insinuating I'm doing something wrong here.
Saying somebody missed a call when you don't have the angle to see if they did or not tells me all I need to know.

And it wouldn't be the first time you took a dig at a college official.



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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Nov 28, 2019, 09:51am
LRZ LRZ is offline
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Please stop, at least long enough to enjoy Thanksgiving.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 01, 2019, 04:55pm
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Tough one, but the call looks right. However, isn't it what you can sell? Will anyone other than yellow team believe or support that call? Props to doing it, but damn, it's the right call, but is it the "right" call?

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Please stop, at least long enough to enjoy Thanksgiving.
It ain't Thanksgiving if someone isn't fighting.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 01, 2019, 06:03pm
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I don't care if it is the "right" call or not, as long as it can be justified by the rules. White pushed a teammate into an opponent, which is why the call the officials made on the floor was correct, albeit unusual.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Sun Dec 01, 2019, 07:15pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Player989random View Post
Tough one, but the call looks right. However, isn't it what you can sell? Will anyone other than yellow team believe or support that call? Props to doing it, but damn, it's the right call, but is it the "right" call?



It ain't Thanksgiving if someone isn't fighting.
It most definitely is the right call if #10 shoved the defender and caused a collision.

I give that official kudos for being in the right position to see something illegal that the rest of us can't see clearly from our camera angle.

What do we say if he calls that foul on the defense and then we have a fan's or team manager's YouTube video pop up showing the offensive player shoving the defender?

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