Conflicting Advice.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... the NFHS has a casebook ruling stating when the violation occurs ...

Not disagreeing, but would like a citation please.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not disagreeing, but would like a citation please.

4.15.4 SITUATION A: As dribbler A1 attempts to change directions to avoid guard B1, he/she allows the ball to come to rest in one hand in bringing the ball from the right to the left side of the body. A1 pushes the ball to the floor in an attempt to continue the dribble. RULING: When A1 palmed/carried the ball, the dribble ended and when he/she pushed the ball to the floor a violation occurred. (9-5)

(Emphasis mine, From the 2016-17 book, which is what I have accessible at the moment).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

4.15.4 SITUATION A: As dribbler A1 attempts to change directions to avoid guard B1, he/she allows the ball to come to rest in one hand in bringing the ball from the right to the left side of the body. A1 pushes the ball to the floor in an attempt to continue the dribble. RULING: When A1 palmed/carried the ball, the dribble ended and when he/she pushed the ball to the floor a violation occurred. (9-5)

Doesn't answer the original post.

This is a carry, the illegal dribble variety, not a travel, and there's no indication that a pivot foot has been lifted as stated in the original post.

Regarding 4.15.4 SITUATION A, it states "in an attempt to continue the dribble" which makes this situation real easy.

What if it was stated without that phrase?

NEW SITUATION: As dribbler A1 attempts to change directions to avoid guard B1, he/she allows the ball to come to rest in one hand in bringing the ball from the right to the left side of the body. A1 then pushes the ball to the floor.

Could this be the start of a bounce pass, possibly a real ugly bounce pass, and wouldn't one have to wait to see if it was a dribble by noting if A1 touched the ball again?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Doesn't answer the original post.

This is a carry, the illegal dribble variety, not a travel, and there's no indication that a pivot foot has been lifted as stated in the original post.

Regarding 4.15.4 SITUATION A, it states "in an attempt to continue the dribble" which makes this situation real easy.

What if it was stated without that phrase?

NEW SITUATION: As dribbler A1 attempts to change directions to avoid guard B1, he/she allows the ball to come to rest in one hand in bringing the ball from the right to the left side of the body. A1 then pushes the ball to the floor.

Could this be the start of a bounce pass, possibly a real ugly bounce pass, and wouldn't one have to wait to see if it was a dribble by noting if A1 touched the ball again?

Camron's case can be extrapolated to the OP. In both cases (dribble comes to rest/pivot foot is lifted) it is illegal to subsequently dribble.

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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Camron's case can be extrapolated to the OP. In both cases (dribble comes to rest/pivot foot is lifted) it is illegal to subsequently dribble.

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Precisely...it clearly defines that a dribble is begun by pushing the ball to the floor without any requirement that it be touched again. The fact that the case is about a carry is irrelevant to the question.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

...(dribble comes to rest/pivot foot is lifted) it is illegal to subsequently dribble.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

...it clearly defines that a dribble is begun by pushing the ball to the floor without any requirement that it be touched again.

4.15.4 SITUATION A also clearly states "in an attempt to continue the dribble" which makes this situation a lot easier than if it didn't state it.

A cowboy hears hoofbeats and thinks horses, not zebras.

An official sees the ball released and thinks dribble, when in fact, it may be the start of a bounce pass.

Now that we've defined the beginning of a dribble how would one define the beginning of a bounce pass?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

4.15.4 SITUATION A also clearly states "in an attempt to continue the dribble" which makes this situation a lot easier than if it didn't state it.



A cowboy hears hoofbeats and thinks horses, not zebras.



An official sees the ball released and thinks dribble, when in fact, it may be the start of a bounce pass.

It doesn't matter. We're still talking about a restriction on when someone can subsequently dribble.

I am in the camp of waiting to see what happens next unless I can clearly tell it's a dribble, for example he pushes the ball straight down to the floor and there are no other offensive players within 20 feet. But if he pushes the ball away from himself and there are other teammates who may be able to touch the ball next, then I'm holding my whistle.

Judgment, it's why we get paid the big bucks.

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