The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 26, 2019, 04:38pm
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 633
New Rules 2019

A couple of questions have come up with some officials that I wanted to put on the table here

On Shorts..ok to roll them down at waist. What about players rolling up the bottom of their shorts?

Assistant Coaches can help and come on the floor during a fight without penalty. What about an Athletic Trainer?

Does your area use an uniform Pre-Game timeline? Example get Captains at 4 minutes before tip off..etc.

Preference on having a joint Captains/coaches meeting or Separate with each coach and the Captains?

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 26, 2019, 05:03pm
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,358
I'll take one and let others take the others:

Q: Preference on having a joint Captains/coaches meeting or Separate with each coach and the Captains?

A: NFHS Officials' Manual prescribes, for those who follow it, only the "Single Conference", meeting with the head coaches and two captains (and how many other players wanna gather for the Cum Ba Ya moment) in front of the table. Unless they change it in the new manual coming out this pre-season.
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
www.myvirtualofficialsassociation.com
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 26, 2019, 05:14pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
I'll take one and let others take the others:

Q: Preference on having a joint Captains/coaches meeting or Separate with each coach and the Captains?

A: NFHS Officials' Manual prescribes, for those who follow it, only the "Single Conference", meeting with the head coaches and two captains (and how many other players wanna gather for the Cum Ba Ya moment) in front of the table. Unless they change it in the new manual coming out this pre-season.
In Illinois that is the standard and what we do. In Indiana, for some reason, they have a meeting with captains and then a meeting with the captains separately. I cannot stand the separate meetings. It is a waste of time from the jump, but a bigger waste to do it twice. And officials that I have been around, likes to tell coaches things they would never say with the kids there. It just is awful. My 2 cents.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Aug 26, 2019, 07:56pm
LRZ LRZ is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SE PA
Posts: 664
Does your area use an uniform Pre-Game timeline? Example get Captains at 4 minutes before tip off..etc.

No, except for checking the book sufficiently before the 10 minute mark, to avoid book issues and Ts. The meeting (see below) takes place whenever the R decides, usually about 3 minutes before the tip-off.

Preference on having a joint Captains/coaches meeting or Separate with each coach and the Captains?

In PA, we have a mandatory meeting with coaches and captains, where we must read a code of sportsmanship, plus whatever else the R may wish to address.

On Shorts..ok to roll them down at waist. What about players rolling up the bottom of their shorts?

Unless it is a new rule this year, why be concerned about this?

Last edited by LRZ; Mon Aug 26, 2019 at 08:00pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 12:10am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post

On Shorts..ok to roll them down at waist. What about players rolling up the bottom of their shorts?

Unless it is a new rule this year, why be concerned about this?
It was previously prohibited as rolling them in any way was not considered to be worn as the manufacturer intended.

The new rule change now allows the waistbands to be rolled, but it is silent on any other variation. Thus, the restriction remains with regards to the bottom of the pants.

The desire to roll the bottoms was in response to rolling the waistband being restricted as a way to shorten the overall length. Now that the waistbands can be rolled, there should be no motivation to roll the legs up.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 09:27am
LRZ LRZ is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SE PA
Posts: 664
What if rolling the waistband would impermissibly show more than one manufacturer's logo (e.g., on the leg and on the waistband), so that the only way to shorten the length would be to roll the bottoms? Which is more consistent with the rule, multiple logos or rolled bottoms?

At least for sub-varsity games, these kinds of rules and restrictions are often impractical to apply and require some common sense.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 09:30am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
What if rolling the waistband would impermissibly show more than one manufacturer's logo (e.g., on the leg and on the waistband), so that the only way to shorten the length would be to roll the bottoms? Which is more consistent with the rule, multiple logos or rolled bottoms?

At least for sub-varsity games, these kinds of rules and restrictions are often impractical to apply and require some common sense.
Roll the waistband "under" so no logos show (or, roll it twice).
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:08am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,368
From My Pregame ...

On court at 15:00. Scorebook at 12:00. Coaches and captains meeting at 5:00: Uniforms and equipment are legal, and will be worn properly. Participants will exhibit good sportsmanship. Optional: Coaching box. Thirty/sixty second timeouts.

It used to be shorter. I've only recently added box and timeout comments because most other guys were doing it.



I will occasionally hear, "Black line all the way around". No way you would ever hear me say it.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:12am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,368
Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
It was previously prohibited as rolling them in any way was not considered to be worn as the manufacturer intended. The new rule change now allows the waistbands to be rolled, but it is silent on any other variation. Thus, the restriction remains with regards to the bottom of the pants. The desire to roll the bottoms was in response to rolling the waistband being restricted as a way to shorten the overall length. Now that the waistbands can be rolled, there should be no motivation to roll the legs up.
A note was added to Rule 3-5-5 to permit folding or rolling the shorts at the natural waistband seam. The new language does state that the shorts have to be in compliance with Rule 3-4-5, which restricts uniform pants/skirts to one visible manufacturer’s logo/trademark/reference. Theresia Wynns, NFHS director of sports and officials and liaison to the Basketball Rules Committee, said this addition to Rule 3-5-5 modernizes the rule and allows players to adjust the shorts in a manner that serves no harm to the game or its integrity.

3-5-5: Add Note: NOTE: Provided the shorts are not in conflict with 3-4-5, no drawstring or other part of the shorts intended to maintain them in a normal position causes potential harm to the player or others and wearing of the shorts is not objectionable in exposing the anatomy, there is no restriction on folding or rolling the shorts at the natural waistband seam.
Rationale: Rolling of the shorts is only illegal by interpretation, not by current rule. This is an attempt to modernize the rule and allow what players seem to want and what serves as no harm to the game or its integrity. In particular, this interpretation was made because allegedly manufacturers did not intend on the shorts to be rolled when in fact many manufacturer reps will tell you that the seams are intentionally made to offer options in the way they are worn.

Team Member’s Equipment (3-5-5): Added Note: This note provides states an opportunity to ease the rule on wearing the shorts as intended as long as there is not a conflict with Rule 3-4-5, the drawstring or other parts do not cause harm to the wearer or others and the shorts are worn in a manner that parts of the anatomy are not objectionably exposed. Rolling or folding the shorts at the natural waistband may be allowed.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Aug 27, 2019 at 03:54pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 10:16am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,368
Let's Go To The Videotape ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
Assistant Coaches can help and come on the floor during a fight without penalty. What about an Athletic Trainer?
In another change, assistant coaches now will be able to go onto the court with the head coach in an effort to restore order when a fight breaks out among players. “It can be difficult for officials to separate players involved in a fight on the court,” Wynns said. “This change will allow assistant coaches to enter the court with the head coach to assist officials in regaining control of the situation and restoring player safety.”

10-5-5 Note: The head coach and any number of assistant coaches may enter the court in the situation where a fight may break out - or has broken out - to prevent the situation from escalating.
Rationale: Based on some fight situations that I have seen and heard about over the last couple years at the high school level, I believe that this change, which was instituted at the NCAA level, is a change that is good for the game of basketball and in regard to player safety. It is difficult in our society for officials to be able to help to separate players involved in a fight since our society has become very litigious. Changing the rule to allow the head coach and assistant coaches to assist in these types of situations will help the officials to regain control of the entire situation more quickly and especially in regard to player safety.

Bench Technical (10-5-5 Note): This addition to the rule permits assistant coaches to enter the court to assist in controlling a fight that has broken out or is about to break out. This change does not preclude the responsibility for bench control. The head coach must preplan what assistant coaches must do in such a situation. An assistant coach must be designated to remain at the bench to maintain control of bench personnel.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Aug 27, 2019 at 01:25pm.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 11:00am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
It was previously prohibited as rolling them in any way was not considered to be worn as the manufacturer intended.
There were some states that did not care about these being rolled up. Both of my states did not seem to care and Illinois specifically told us not to worry about as long as the logos were not showing.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 11:31am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 18,368
Connecticut ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
There were some states that did not care about these being rolled up. Both of my states did not seem to care and Illinois specifically told us not to worry about as long as the logos were not showing.
Previous to last year this issue never even came up here in Connecticut. It was news to us when the annual interpretations came out last year (although I had heard some rumblings on the Forum).

NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations - 2018-19
SITUATION 9: During warm-ups, the officials notice that some players have rolled the waistband on their shorts. What actions should be taken by the officials, if any, at this time? RULING: During the warm-up period, the referee should notify the coach of the infractions and ask that they be corrected immediately. If the corrections are not made and players attempt to enter the game with rolled waistbands, those players should not be allowed to enter the game prior to correcting the issue. If player(s) in the game have rolled waistband(s), they shall be directed to leave the game and may not re-enter until the next opportunity to substitute. No penalty is involved. The game should not be held-up to allow for the correction. (3-3-5, 3-5-5)


We were encouraged to enforce it last year, many ignored the encouragement, others just paid it "lip service".

Glad it was repealed, we don't need any additional fashion issues to enforce.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 01:16pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,888
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
There were some states that did not care about these being rolled up. Both of my states did not seem to care and Illinois specifically told us not to worry about as long as the logos were not showing.

Peace
Some states may have not cared, but that doesn't mean it was legal. Your state chose to ignore the rule. That is certainly their right to do so.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Aug 27, 2019, 02:17pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Some states may have not cared, but that doesn't mean it was legal. Your state chose to ignore the rule. That is certainly their right to do so.
It was a state interpretation. That is their mandate when there is not a specifically addressed interpretation. These rolled jerseys were assumed to apply to the rule that was referenced.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 19, 2019, 03:40pm
This IS My Social Life
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: at L, T, or C
Posts: 2,358
Forum member Jeff J. from AZ identified something seemingly wrong with the new reading of 4-41-7: "The tap or try for field goal starts when the player's hand(s) touches the ball." (Used to say, "The tap starts when the player's hand(s) touches the ball.")
This new wording seems to conflict with 4-41-3 which remains unchanged, "The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball".
Can anyone make some sense out of the change to 4-41-7? Seems like they just got carried away with the other insertions of the word "field" before goal and changed this when they shouldn't have.
__________________
Making Every Effort to Be in the Right Place at the Right Time, Looking at the Right Thing to Make the Right Call
www.myvirtualofficialsassociation.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
2019-20 NFHS Rules Changes SC Official Basketball 93 Wed Dec 11, 2019 03:37pm
The New in the NFHS 2019-20 Rules Book Freddy Basketball 7 Thu Aug 15, 2019 06:24pm
2019 Rules Changes kenref1 Football 69 Sun Jun 09, 2019 10:20pm
2019 NIT experimental rules Nevadaref Basketball 6 Fri Mar 22, 2019 02:30pm
FED Rules Changes for 2019 CT1 Baseball 3 Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:26am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:00am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1