Your Opinion Sought: "Strong Side"

[Freddy]

Thank you for the responses.

In answer to the question, "When should Lead rotate?", I've been accustomed to say, "When it is apparent that Center's side has become strong side." That, by my previous working definition of strong-side ("The side of the court with the on-ball competitive matchup and player population prompting Lead to rotate") always worked so well. But now, if I change to conform to one of the different definitions mentioned above, how shall I answer that question? What simple and succinct answer would you recommend to the question, "When should Lead rotate?"
(Not a trick question. I'm truly interested in changing...)

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Thank you for the responses.

In answer to the question, "When should Lead rotate?", I've been accustomed to say, "When it is apparent that Center's side is strong side." That, by my working definition of strong-side ("The side of the court with the on-ball competitive matchup and player population prompting Lead to rotate") always worked so well. But now, if I change to conform to one of the different definitions mentioned above, how shall I answer that question? What simple and succinct answer would you recommend to the question, "When should Lead rotate?"
(Not a trick question. I'm truly interested in changing...)

When the rotation will put the crew in a better position

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Thank you for the responses.

In answer to the question, "When should Lead rotate?", I've been accustomed to say, "When it is apparent that Center's side has become strong side." That, by my previous working definition of strong-side ("The side of the court with the on-ball competitive matchup and player population prompting Lead to rotate") always worked so well. But now, if I change to conform to one of the different definitions mentioned above, how shall I answer that question? What simple and succinct answer would you recommend to the question, "When should Lead rotate?"
(Not a trick question. I'm truly interested in changing...)

I would say that waiting until it was "apparent..." was probably a little late. I like to go when I see that situation developing, not once it has already developed.

As for the question, to expand on sdoebler's reply...

When the rotation will put the crew in a better position...to officiate the play that is developing.

For example, when the ball is out top and the PG is moving left to right and the all-star post that the ball always goes to is also moving left to right in order to get a position on the lower box, I go with the post before the ball settles. You want to be there before the ball gets into that post play. Once the ball gets there and it is apparent, you're too late.

[bucky]

Strong side is ball and L side. Simple.

It doesn't matter if 2-ref or 3-ref. It doesn't matter if 2 bigs are in low post opposite side of the ball. L can still officiate them and, if not due to officiating ball, then C can.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

Strong side is ball and L side. Simple.

I disagree...as does the mechanics manual defitition. Strong side is not defined by the ball. It is defined only by the location of the L....

3.0.11 Strong Side: Side of the court determined by the location of Lead official.

Often, they are one and the same, but the L, in some case is not ball-side and they are still on the Strong Side.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree...as does the mechanics manual defitition. Strong side is not defined by the ball. It is defined only by the location of the L....



Often, they are one and the same, but the L, in some case is not ball-side and they are still on the Strong Side.

Correct, this is where the manual is wrong. The writers, and only the writers, defined it by an official, whereas everyone else (unless your an official reading the manual) defines it by where the ball is. Fans, coaches, players, and officials all describe play and activity based on where the ball is, not an official.

During practice....

Coach: Billy, go to the strong side so we can get Tom an isolation play.
Billy: Where would the lead official be? That's what determine strong side coach.
Coach: You are off the team. Get out.

There could be 10 players on one side and L on the other. Per you, and the manual, the strong side would contain no players. No one would claim the side with the L official is strong side. That would be illogical.

Often? That is my point. They should always be the same. Stick to that and there are far fewer problems than using the manual definition.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

Correct, this is where the manual is wrong. The writers, and only the writers, defined it by an official, whereas everyone else (unless your an official reading the manual) defines it by where the ball is. Fans, coaches, players, and officials all describe play and activity based on where the ball is, not an official.

During practice....

Coach: Billy, go to the strong side so we can get Tom an isolation play.
Billy: Where would the lead official be? That's what determine strong side coach.
Coach: You are off the team. Get out.

There could be 10 players on one side and L on the other. Per you, and the manual, the strong side would contain no players. No one would claim the side with the L official is strong side. That would be illogical.

Often? That is my point. They should always be the same. Stick to that and there are far fewer problems than using the manual definition.

Players/coaches/fans, sure, they can use it however they want. But, we're not talking players/coaches/fans. We're talking officiating. Officials don't describe it the same way (or at least shouldn't) because we're talking about entirely different things. In the officiating context, it is talking about the strength of the officiating alignment....2 officials makes it strong (in 3-person), the L (in 2-person) makes it strong. That is because the presence of the L gives much stronger coverage than if the L is on the other side.

Officiating terminology often differs from fan/coach/player-speak. This is just another example....we don't call reaches, we don't call walking, we don't say a player was set, etc.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

Correct, this is where the manual is wrong. The writers, and only the writers, defined it by an official, whereas everyone else (unless your an official reading the manual) defines it by where the ball is. Fans, coaches, players, and officials all describe play and activity based on where the ball is, not an official.

The *TEAM's* strong side is where most of the players are. That's why coaches and players use it as yuou describe.

The *OFFICIAL's* strong side is where most of the officials are. That's why we should use the term that way.

It's perfectly consistent.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

The *TEAM's* strong side is where most of the players are. That's why coaches and players use it as yuou describe.

The *OFFICIAL's* strong side is where most of the officials are. That's why we should use the term that way.

It's perfectly consistent.

Good point Bob. Consistent? Yes, but not in the most efficient way. To be even more efficient and more consistent, strong side should be defined the same way for everyone. Too bad the manual editors did not write what they meant.

Ironically, in discussions involving the court, I have never heard an official use the term strong side to discuss where the L was. Rather, they were using it to describe where the ball was. Invariably, the point being made in the discussion was that the L should be on the strong side, where the ball was.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Fans, coaches, players, and officials all describe play and activity based on where the ball is, not an official.

From my two cents:

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... “strong side” as a basketball coach ... I coached middle school basketball for over twenty-five years and attended many coaching workshops, including those with college coach presenters, and the term “strong side” always meant the side of the court with the ball. The very first time I heard it we were instructed to imagine a string tied to one basket ring and stretched across the length of the court and tied to the other basket ring. If the ball was one side of this string, that was the “strong side”.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... don't confuse coaching language with officiating language.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by bucky

Correct, this is where the manual is wrong. The writers, and only the writers, defined it by an official, whereas everyone else (unless your an official reading the manual) defines it by where the ball is. Fans, coaches, players, and officials all describe play and activity based on where the ball is, not an official.

During practice....

Coach: Billy, go to the strong side so we can get Tom an isolation play.
Billy: Where would the lead official be? That's what determine strong side coach.
Coach: You are off the team. Get out.

There could be 10 players on one side and L on the other. Per you, and the manual, the strong side would contain no players. No one would claim the side with the L official is strong side. That would be illogical.

Often? That is my point. They should always be the same. Stick to that and there are far fewer problems than using the manual definition.

Who the hell cares what the player, coaches, fans, and talking heads say and think?

We are the game officials! We use correct terminology as defined in the Rules Book, the Casebook, the Officials Manual, the Illustrated Rules Book, and the Basketball Handbook. And the definition of Strong Side in the Officials Manual is very efficient: Short and to the point! If an official uses any other description to describe the Strong Side which does not conform to the NFHS Officials Manual or the CCA Men's and Women's Manual, that official is incorrect!

This should end this discussion.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. And as a Moderator I really hope that I do not have to close this thread, something I have never done before.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're arguing that they should change a definition to match your misunderstanding.

No, they should change it to match everyone's understanding.

Are you going to argue that they should put over-the-back in the book next because many players and coaches use that term?

No, because officials do not use it. You are changing the scenario from a shared term by more than one group to a term used by one group.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

We are the game officials! We use correct terminology as defined in the Rules Book, the Casebook, the Officials Manual, the Illustrated Rules Book, and the Basketball Handbook. And the definition of Strong Side in the Officials Manual is very efficient: Short and to the point! If an official uses any other description to describe the Strong Side which does not conform to the NFHS Officials Manual or the CCA Men's and Women's Manual, that official is incorrect!

Officials do not use correct terminology all the time, not even close. Can't believe that you would suggest it.

And when a room full of officials uses the term strong side to describe the ball side, they are not incorrect because the communication works. All are in agreed understanding. As I indicated, I know of no official, nor anyone for that matter, that describes strong side the manual way.

At your next large meeting, put up a slide asking the room to define strong side. Please, no leading the witnesses. See how many have the word "ball" in their definition. Then, feel free to correct them all, lol. I plan on it at our next meeting.

Good to know though, that the manual/books suggest otherwise. It might come in handy as some obscure text question some day, or maybe on Jeopardy!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Freddy

Thank you for the responses.

In answer to the question, "When should Lead rotate?", I've been accustomed to say, "When it is apparent that Center's side has become strong side." That, by my previous working definition of strong-side ("The side of the court with the on-ball competitive matchup and player population prompting Lead to rotate") always worked so well. But now, if I change to conform to one of the different definitions mentioned above, how shall I answer that question? What simple and succinct answer would you recommend to the question, "When should Lead rotate?"
(Not a trick question. I'm truly interested in changing...)

When it is clear to the Lead that the Center will be overloaded.

Officials can generally handle two match-ups, but three is too much. Just like the T doesn’t need help from the C in the backcourt when it is 2 on 2, but does once five players (or it is 3 on 3) are actively participating in the action in the backcourt. This is guideline that I use to tell me when a partner needs coverage help.

So a ball-handler with an on-ball defender would be one match-up (and the primary one), add two opposing players jockeying for position in the high or low post on the C’s side (or running a pick and roll) and that official has the maximum that he can handle. If another player now comes over to screen, set up for a shot, or to receive a pass on the wing, the Lead should be rotating.

I also agree with Camron. Go with the player or competitive match-up that indicates to you that the C’s side is now where the action is. Don’t wait. See that play develop and get into position to officiate it. Don’t leave your C overwhelmed and trying to cover everything going on over there by himself!

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

When it is clear to the Lead that the Center will be overloaded.

Of all the replies thus far, this is the best I've seen.
Open for other perspectives.