The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 12:04pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 38
Backcourt Violation (Video)?

I teach my players that to establish frontcourt, the ball handler has to cross the half court line with both feet touching the frontcourt AND the ball must touch the frontcourt as well.

In this play, it looks like both feet cross the line... but the ball never touches the frontcourt.

Is this a backcourt violation?

https://youtu.be/luOLbSUIgPU
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 12:55pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
No Backcourt Violation ...

4-4-6: During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball is in the
frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the dribbler touch the court
entirely in the frontcourt.


When a dribbler is advancing the ball into the frontcourt, the ball maintains backcourt status until both feet, and the ball, touch entirely in the frontcourt.

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

Tough bang-bang play in real time either way. Two officials in the video had this as a backcourt violation. It's a lot easier to call, or not call, on a video that we can look at several times. The fact that the player is dribbling backwards into the frontcourt makes this an odd looking play.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Apr 06, 2019 at 01:01pm.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 01:25pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Teaching ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
I teach my players that to establish frontcourt, the ball handler has to cross the half court line with both feet touching the frontcourt AND the ball must touch the frontcourt as well.
If you're teaching your players how to become basketball officials, that's good direction.

If you just want your players to avoid backcourt violations, tell them to avoid catching a pass, ending a dribble, or pivoting with the ball, anywhere near the division line. Less chance of officials making a backcourt violation mistake under these conditions. I taught that over twenty-five plus years of coaching middle school players.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 01:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
It's unclear to me whether the call is BC violation or illegal dribble ("carry")
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 01:49pm
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,840
Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
I teach my players that to establish frontcourt, the ball handler has to cross the half court line with both feet touching the frontcourt AND the ball must touch the frontcourt as well.



In this play, it looks like both feet cross the line... but the ball never touches the frontcourt.



Is this a backcourt violation?
No, it wasn't a backcourt violation. When I see incorrect calls I try to figure out what may have caused it. In this case, as Billy stated, it is an odd looking play that officials are not used to seeing. We rarely see somebody dribbling backwards while crossing the division line.

Also a caveat in regards to your statement to your players. The ball only has to touch the front court if the ball handler is still dribbling.

Example: Dribbler straddles division, picks up dribble, then picks up foot that's in the back court. Ball-handler now has front court status even though they only have one foot in the front court and the ball never touched the front court.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 02:31pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
It's unclear to me whether the call is BC violation or illegal dribble ("carry")
I was actually thinking the same thing. It looks like the dribble stopped, then started again. Either a carry or a double dribble. Either is obviously illegal.



And it looks like the Trail is giving a "palming" signal not over and back signal.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 03:44pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Think Alike ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It looks like the dribble stopped, then started again.
I thought the same thing the first three times looking at the video, even typed up a response in regard to that (since deleted), but after several more views I believe it's all one dribble, no stoppage.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 03:47pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Additional Direction ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If you just want your players to avoid backcourt violations, tell them to avoid catching a pass, ending a dribble, or pivoting with the ball, anywhere near the division line. Less chance of officials making a backcourt violation mistake under these conditions.
Of course the usual basic don't dribble from frontcourt to backcourt, don't pass from frontcourt to backcourt (unless it's throwin), and the division line is part of the backcourt.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 04:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I thought the same thing the first three times looking at the video, even typed up a response in regard to that (since deleted), but after several more views I believe it's all one dribble, no stoppage.
The C is certainly not calling a palming violation.
However, I agree with the original poster of the video. This is not a backcourt violation because the ball never contacted the floor in the frontcourt during the dribble.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 05:56pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
The C is certainly not calling a palming violation.
However, I agree with the original poster of the video. This is not a backcourt violation because the ball never contacted the floor in the frontcourt during the dribble.
I am not so sure what they are calling. But maybe they felt their dribble stopped. Who knows. We would only know if we were asking the officials because she kind of drops out of the call when she notices the T is calling something. I am not sure we are going to get a good answer to this on our own.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 09:39pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,013
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post

And it looks like the Trail is giving a "palming" signal not over and back signal.
Huh? The signals are similar but the BC signal is a wider motion/sweep of the arm/hand, as depicted in the NFHS signal chart. The "carry" signal is the same motion but with much smaller motion/sweep of wrist/hand. In the video, the T signals with a wide sweep, indicating a BC violation.

Am I missing something?

Seems to me that T is clearly incorrectly calling a BC violation.
__________________
If some rules are never enforced, then why do they exist?
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 11:17pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,463
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Huh? The signals are similar but the BC signal is a wider motion/sweep of the arm/hand, as depicted in the NFHS signal chart. The "carry" signal is the same motion but with much smaller motion/sweep of wrist/hand. In the video, the T signals with a wide sweep, indicating a BC violation.

Am I missing something?

Seems to me that T is clearly incorrectly calling a BC violation.
They are similar and people usually make a distinction in how the show those signals. Most of the time people either point to the line or come to the line if they clearly have an over and back call. Not everyone is a robot and gives a signal exactly the same (also many use their voice as well) But again he looks like he had a carry by his signal and where he made the call. He never came to the line as if to suggest that is what he calling. And unless we talk to him, we are speculating anyway. There was a hesitation in the dribble so that is what I was thinking that took place.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
backcourt violation

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Backcourt Violation called (Video) - Was this the right call? JRutledge Basketball 32 Tue Aug 07, 2018 09:30am
Violation Rule - Backcourt (Video) JRutledge Basketball 10 Fri Mar 10, 2017 01:50pm
Gonzaga vs. SMU Backcourt Violation? (Video) Sharpshooternes Basketball 15 Thu Nov 20, 2014 11:23am
Backcourt violation - please provide video sniez Basketball 12 Sun May 26, 2013 05:39pm
Backcourt Violation? with Video referee99 Basketball 27 Fri Mar 15, 2013 02:34pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:56am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1