Backcourt violation - please provide video

[sniez]

Hi,

I'm confused aubout Art. 30 FIBA rules Ball returned to the backcourt. BillyMac writes in "Most misunderstood backetball rules" that

"20) During a throwin, even under a team’s own basket, if the throwin is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; or after a missed field goal attempt or a missed foul shot attempt, if the ball is deflected, tipped, or batted by an offensive player in the frontcourt to an offensive player in the backcourt; these are not a backcourt violations. In both cases team control, a player holding or dribbling the ball, has not yet been established."

So ball control is essential in this situations? Does it apply to the situation, when player A1 dribbles or holds the ball in his backcourt, player B1 tries to steal the ball (he taps it in his frontcourt) and the ball goes to the backcourt of team B. Then B2 recovers the ball in his backcourt. Similar situation is shown here:

11-0105 - Backcourt Violation - What is your Decision? - FIBA Basketball Rules - YouTube






But here referee whistled backcourt violation.

Could you please provide some similar video, where referee doesn whistle in this situation?

[bob jenkins]

When the ball was bouding out near the division line, one of the Red players either (a) batted, or (b) caught and quickly threw, the ball away from thei division line.

In (a) it would NOT be a BC violation. In (b) it would be. FED and NCAA rules. FIBA might vary.

[Adam]

I'm pretty sure FIBA is different here, and this play is a violation. Billy's myths do not apply to FIBA.

[Jay R]

Keep in mind that Billy Mac's list would National Federation Rules I assume. The video is from FIBA. Different rule sets can very greatly.

Based on the video provided. I don't believe that this play should be a violation in any rule set.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sniez

BillyMac writes in "Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules" ...

"Misunderstood Rules" apply to NFHS rules, the only set of rules that I am familiar with. I apologize for not a making this clear. I know more about quantum physics than I know about FIBA rules.

[Jay R]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm pretty sure FIBA is different here, and this play is a violation. Billy's myths do not apply to FIBA.

You do need team control for a an over and back violation in FIBA and I don't see team control here for the red team.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

"Misunderstood Rules" apply to NFHS rules, the only set of rules that I am familiar with. I apologize for not a making this clear. I know more about quantum physics than I know about FIBA rules.

Then you need to insert NFHS before basketball.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Then you need to insert NFHS before basketball.

Done.

"Accordingly I say to you, keep on asking, and it will be given you; keep on seeking, and you will find; keep on knocking three times on the ceiling if you want me."

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Jay R

You do need team control for a an over and back violation in FIBA and I don't see team control here for the red team.

Sorry, that's what I get for attempting anything this morning. I hadn't watched the video, and for some reason made a very poor assumption that the play was a throw in from the FC endline.

[dvboa]

NFHS
4.12.2 SITUATION: During a throw-in by A1 from the sideline by Team A the throw-in is touched in the front court by A2 before it goes across the division line where it is recovered by A2.
Ruling: Legal even though Team A is in team control during the throw-in. A2 must have player control in the front court following the inbound in order to have front court status.

[sniez]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm pretty sure FIBA is different here, and this play is a violation. Billy's myths do not apply to FIBA.

Originally Posted by Jay R

You do need team control for a an over and back violation in FIBA and I don't see team control here for the red team.

So what is the right decision here? In FIBA rulebook there is:

30.1.2 The ball has been illegally returned to the backcourt when a player of the team in control of the live ball is the last to touch the ball in his frontcourt, after which that player or a team-mate is the first to touch the ball in the backcourt.

and

14.1.1 Team control starts when a player of that team is in control of a live ball by holding or dribbling it or has a live ball at his disposal.

So it's quite similar to NBA.

Originally Posted by dvboa

NFHS
4.12.2 SITUATION: During a throw-in by A1 from the sideline by Team A the throw-in is touched in the front court by A2 before it goes across the division line where it is recovered by A2.
Ruling: Legal even though Team A is in team control during the throw-in. A2 must have player control in the front court following the inbound in order to have front court status.

In this situation, official calls a violation. Is there any movie, where referee doesn't call BC violation?

[APG]

It's only similar to the NBA in that a team in control of the can't be the last to touch the ball in the frontcourt and the first to touch the ball in the backcourt. This is pretty much the same as NFHS (American (for the most part) high school rules) and NCAA rules.

Where it'll be different in the NBA is that team control ends on a defensive deflection. Team control does not end on a simple deflection by the defense under FIBA/NFHS/NCAA rules.

So if a defensive player deflects a ball off an offensive player, while his team has control of the ball in the frontcourt (team control continues while a team is passing the ball and only ends if the ball becomes dead, there's a shot attempt, or the other team gets the ball), and the offense is the first to touch the ball in the backcourt, it would be a violation under NCAA/NFHS, and I'm 90 percent sure under FIBA rules. Under NBA rules, since team control ends on a defensive deflection, there would be no violation.

[Jay R]

So what is the right decision here? In FIBA rulebook there is:

30.1.2 The ball has been illegally returned to the backcourt when a player of the team in control of the live ball is the last to touch the ball in his frontcourt, after which that player or a team-mate is the first to touch the ball in the backcourt.

and

14.1.1 Team control starts when a player of that team is in control of a live ball by holding or dribbling it or has a live ball at his disposal.

You answered your own question. 30.1.2 says that team control is needed. In the video you provided, the team in red does not have team control. So it was not a violation.