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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 12:04pm
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Backcourt Violation (Video)?

I teach my players that to establish frontcourt, the ball handler has to cross the half court line with both feet touching the frontcourt AND the ball must touch the frontcourt as well.

In this play, it looks like both feet cross the line... but the ball never touches the frontcourt.

Is this a backcourt violation?

https://youtu.be/luOLbSUIgPU
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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 12:55pm
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No Backcourt Violation ...

4-4-6: During a dribble from backcourt to frontcourt, the ball is in the
frontcourt when the ball and both feet of the dribbler touch the court
entirely in the frontcourt.


When a dribbler is advancing the ball into the frontcourt, the ball maintains backcourt status until both feet, and the ball, touch entirely in the frontcourt.

The four elements for having a backcourt violation are: there must be team control (and initial player control when coming from a throwin); the ball must have achieved frontcourt status; the team in team control must be the last to touch the ball before it goes into the backcourt; that same team must be the first to touch after the ball has been in the backcourt.

Tough bang-bang play in real time either way. Two officials in the video had this as a backcourt violation. It's a lot easier to call, or not call, on a video that we can look at several times. The fact that the player is dribbling backwards into the frontcourt makes this an odd looking play.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Apr 06, 2019 at 01:01pm.
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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 01:25pm
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Teaching ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
I teach my players that to establish frontcourt, the ball handler has to cross the half court line with both feet touching the frontcourt AND the ball must touch the frontcourt as well.
If you're teaching your players how to become basketball officials, that's good direction.

If you just want your players to avoid backcourt violations, tell them to avoid catching a pass, ending a dribble, or pivoting with the ball, anywhere near the division line. Less chance of officials making a backcourt violation mistake under these conditions. I taught that over twenty-five plus years of coaching middle school players.
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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 01:38pm
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It's unclear to me whether the call is BC violation or illegal dribble ("carry")
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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 01:49pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
I teach my players that to establish frontcourt, the ball handler has to cross the half court line with both feet touching the frontcourt AND the ball must touch the frontcourt as well.



In this play, it looks like both feet cross the line... but the ball never touches the frontcourt.



Is this a backcourt violation?
No, it wasn't a backcourt violation. When I see incorrect calls I try to figure out what may have caused it. In this case, as Billy stated, it is an odd looking play that officials are not used to seeing. We rarely see somebody dribbling backwards while crossing the division line.

Also a caveat in regards to your statement to your players. The ball only has to touch the front court if the ball handler is still dribbling.

Example: Dribbler straddles division, picks up dribble, then picks up foot that's in the back court. Ball-handler now has front court status even though they only have one foot in the front court and the ball never touched the front court.

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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 02:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
It's unclear to me whether the call is BC violation or illegal dribble ("carry")
I was actually thinking the same thing. It looks like the dribble stopped, then started again. Either a carry or a double dribble. Either is obviously illegal.



And it looks like the Trail is giving a "palming" signal not over and back signal.

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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 03:44pm
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Think Alike ...

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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It looks like the dribble stopped, then started again.
I thought the same thing the first three times looking at the video, even typed up a response in regard to that (since deleted), but after several more views I believe it's all one dribble, no stoppage.
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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 03:47pm
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Additional Direction ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
If you just want your players to avoid backcourt violations, tell them to avoid catching a pass, ending a dribble, or pivoting with the ball, anywhere near the division line. Less chance of officials making a backcourt violation mistake under these conditions.
Of course the usual basic don't dribble from frontcourt to backcourt, don't pass from frontcourt to backcourt (unless it's throwin), and the division line is part of the backcourt.
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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 04:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I thought the same thing the first three times looking at the video, even typed up a response in regard to that (since deleted), but after several more views I believe it's all one dribble, no stoppage.
The C is certainly not calling a palming violation.
However, I agree with the original poster of the video. This is not a backcourt violation because the ball never contacted the floor in the frontcourt during the dribble.
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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 05:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
The C is certainly not calling a palming violation.
However, I agree with the original poster of the video. This is not a backcourt violation because the ball never contacted the floor in the frontcourt during the dribble.
I am not so sure what they are calling. But maybe they felt their dribble stopped. Who knows. We would only know if we were asking the officials because she kind of drops out of the call when she notices the T is calling something. I am not sure we are going to get a good answer to this on our own.

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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 09:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post

And it looks like the Trail is giving a "palming" signal not over and back signal.
Huh? The signals are similar but the BC signal is a wider motion/sweep of the arm/hand, as depicted in the NFHS signal chart. The "carry" signal is the same motion but with much smaller motion/sweep of wrist/hand. In the video, the T signals with a wide sweep, indicating a BC violation.

Am I missing something?

Seems to me that T is clearly incorrectly calling a BC violation.
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Old Sat Apr 06, 2019, 11:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Huh? The signals are similar but the BC signal is a wider motion/sweep of the arm/hand, as depicted in the NFHS signal chart. The "carry" signal is the same motion but with much smaller motion/sweep of wrist/hand. In the video, the T signals with a wide sweep, indicating a BC violation.

Am I missing something?

Seems to me that T is clearly incorrectly calling a BC violation.
They are similar and people usually make a distinction in how the show those signals. Most of the time people either point to the line or come to the line if they clearly have an over and back call. Not everyone is a robot and gives a signal exactly the same (also many use their voice as well) But again he looks like he had a carry by his signal and where he made the call. He never came to the line as if to suggest that is what he calling. And unless we talk to him, we are speculating anyway. There was a hesitation in the dribble so that is what I was thinking that took place.

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