T Time Saturday - Help me here

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Also, as was mentioned earlier, they are not required to leave the floor. If their continued presence will inevitably cause a problem, you can send them with adult personnel to the locker room, but there isn't a requirement for them to leave.

You misread that.

They must absolutely leave the floor after 2 T's. They're DQ'd and can no longer be a player. They need not, however, leave the bench.

[BillyMac]

10.5 SITUATION: A1 commits a flagrant technical foul against B1. RULING: The flagrant technical foul disqualifies A1 from further participation in the contest. A disqualified team member or student bench personnel shall go to or remain on the bench. However, in an unusual situation, an official has the authority to require that these individuals who have committed a flagrant technical foul must leave the vicinity of the court. This action is necessary when permitting such offenders to remain at courtside would tend to incite the crowd, to incite the opponents, or to subject the officials, opponents or others administering the game, to unsporting harassment. In such circumstances, the official should require the individual who has committed a flagrant foul to leave the vicinity of the court with an adult supervisor. It must be emphasized that an official does have this authority, when the circumstances resulting from any flagrant foul warrant it. (10-5 Penalty Note)

[RefsNCoaches]

Originally Posted by deecee

2 direct T's result in a DQ. In HS all T's are direct, except for T's against bench personnel which also result in an indirect on the coach. 2 directs or any combination of 3 direct & indirect T's result in a DQ for the coach.

This league follows the NFHS/IHSAA(Indiana) rules as the umbrella with a few "house rules"...such as, every player must play 2 full quarters, no subs, no press if up by 10 or more.

So yes, with this player getting 2 direct technicals, he was done for the day and must sit the teams next game because of getting tossed out. His coach must meet with player and the league commissioner to discuss the reason behind it and the commissioner, at his discretion will either allow him back after the 1 game off or boot them from the league. This kid will serve his one game and be back (provided they win their next game which is tournament).

We have had kids and a long time ago, a couple coaches who were booted and banned from playing and coaching in the league for fighting and just being general d-bags. They instituted a Code of Conduct that all players, parents and coaches sign off on. It's not fool proof but the league is well run and for the most part, we have eliminated a lot of the "trash" with that COC and having multiple board members on duty during the games along with Indy Metro Police officer in each gym.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

They must absolutely leave the floor after 2 T's. They're DQ'd and can no longer be a player.

Minor point, but the player is disqualified after the head coach has been informed that his player is disqualified. This may have an impact on indirect technical fouls to the head coach for unsporting issues related to bench personnel.

It's not 100% clear in the original post if the player's third technical foul was before, or after, the head coach had been informed of said player's disqualification. Before? No indirect to head coach. After? Indirect to head coach and he sits.

[sdoebler]

Years ago when I worked rec ball every venue in our area had the rule that any team that received 3 technical fouls in a game immediately forfeited that game. You should use your position with the board to add to the "house rules." Very helpful in maintaining order.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Years ago when I worked rec ball every venue in our area had the rule that any team that received 3 technical fouls in a game immediately forfeited that game.

Even "administrative" technical fouls (rosters, uniforms, numbers, etc.), of "delay" after warning technical fouls?

[Altor]

Originally Posted by Raymond

In every venue I work it does.

2 T's to a player warrants an ejection?!?!? It's results in disqualification, but only coaches are ejected under NFHS rules.

My point was what others have said. Under NFHS rules, a player (especially a minor in a HS league and having an adult coach) is not required to leave the venue just because he/she has 2 (or even 3) T's. There may be other reasons to ask him/her to leave (with supervision), but the number of T's isn't directly one of them.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Altor

2 T's to a player warrants an ejection?!?!? It's results in disqualification, but only coaches are ejected under NFHS rules.

My point was what others have said. Under NFHS rules, a player (especially a minor in a HS league and having an adult coach) is not required to leave the venue just because he/she has 2 (or even 3) T's. There may be other reasons to ask him/her to leave (with supervision), but the number of T's isn't directly one of them.

Rec leagues. Not talking about high school games.

They don't want the nonsense in their gyms.

Only recball I do is adults, so maybe it's different for children around here.

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[Altor]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Rec leagues. Not talking about high school games.

The OP specifically said HS Rec league. Barring some house rule like you mention, and especially since there appears to be an adult in the coaches box, I don't think it's prudent to "eject" a player.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Altor

The OP specifically said HS Rec league. Barring some house rule like you mention, and especially since there appears to be an adult in the coaches box, I don't think it's prudent to "eject" a player.

It's also not prudent to let a player hold up the game by his refusal to follow instructions and having tirades on the court after being "disqualified".

The last thing I would be thinking about in a rec game is what the NFHS literature says.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You misread that.

They must absolutely leave the floor after 2 T's. They're DQ'd and can no longer be a player. They need not, however, leave the bench.

I stand corrected. But my point is still valid, minus the wrong wording, I did mean leave the gym, not the floor.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even "administrative" technical fouls (rosters, uniforms, numbers, etc.), of "delay" after warning technical fouls?

Sorry, just player techs

[bucky]

Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches

That is in part why I asked too. I've never had that situation. Would you let the slamming of the ball down after the 2nd technical go? The entire gym saw it....

Yes, let it go. The game has become a travesty..for a moment. It is in the league's hands now. I have been in a rec league where someone was ejected (2 direct Ts) and then lobbed the ball towards the ref who was not looking. The ball hit him directly in the back of the head and the ref went down. Medical treatment was needed. Lawsuit was filed, etc. Were we supposed to give another T for lobbing the ball? And one for hitting the ref? And another for the ref going down? Of course not, this conversation is about direct Ts and there is no such thing as a third...of which I have ever heard. By that rational, a ref could simply give 5, 7, 11 T's in a row, maybe more. Rules reference? Exactly, where is it in the rules that people are getting a 3rd direct T that trumps the other cases citing ejection, travesty, forfeiture, etc.

Point is, once the player has been ejected/DQ'd or whatever term you want to use, it is no longer in your hands. The league, spectator judgement(social justice), police, or whatever, will address any further behavior from the culprit. Do not continue the game until the player has left and if the player has not left or is uncooperative, then you leave. Simple as that. If the league director or other person "in charge" favors allowing that type of player to ruin the game and finds disfavor with you for leaving, then neither you nor should anyone, officiate for that person/league. Take your dignity with you and never look back.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

... this conversation is about direct Ts and there is no such thing as a third... once the player has been ... DQ'd ... it is no longer in your hands.

Citation please?

Until I get over to the coach to discuss ejection from the gym and/or forfeiture, the player is not going to get away with taking "free shots" at me, my partner, or other players. I'm not going to fire away with technicals like a machine gun, but I'm not automatically stopping at two.

Originally Posted by bucky

Do not continue the game until the player has left and if the player has not left or is uncooperative, then you leave.

Agree.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

Yes, let it go. The game has become a travesty..for a moment. It is in the league's hands now. I have been in a rec league where someone was ejected (2 direct Ts) and then lobbed the ball towards the ref who was not looking. The ball hit him directly in the back of the head and the ref went down. Medical treatment was needed. Lawsuit was filed, etc. Were we supposed to give another T for lobbing the ball? And one for hitting the ref? And another for the ref going down? Of course not, this conversation is about direct Ts and there is no such thing as a third...of which I have ever heard. By that rational, a ref could simply give 5, 7, 11 T's in a row, maybe more. Rules reference? Exactly, where is it in the rules that people are getting a 3rd direct T that trumps the other cases citing ejection, travesty, forfeiture, etc.

Point is, once the player has been ejected/DQ'd or whatever term you want to use, it is no longer in your hands. The league, spectator judgement(social justice), police, or whatever, will address any further behavior from the culprit. Do not continue the game until the player has left and if the player has not left or is uncooperative, then you leave. Simple as that. If the league director or other person "in charge" favors allowing that type of player to ruin the game and finds disfavor with you for leaving, then neither you nor should anyone, officiate for that person/league. Take your dignity with you and never look back.

I'd love to see where you get that. I think you need the rules reference to back up your claim as the only things I see is what actions should be called a T. None of them say to ignore them if the team member has been DQ'd already. The person is still a team member and under your jurisdiction. If they commit an infraction of the rules, penalize it.

And yes, another T should have been called for a player throwing the ball at the ref...the fact that it hit him and needed medical attention was still the same act, however. But, that was a rec league. I'd forfeit the game at that point and be done with it. So the number of T's wouldn't matter.