Throw-in hits basket

[ballgame99]

Similar question, when you have a partner kick a call like this what are your options? I had a very similar play earlier this year where an inbounds pass hits under the backboard and carried into the court. Partner blows dead, calls it out of bounds and gives it to the other team. No one in the gym seemed to know or care. I knew that was not the right call. So what are my options? And what should I do?

I can tell you what I did; I did nothing for fear of showing up my partner. This happened in the first quarter so I even forgot to discuss in the locker room post game even though I made a mental note to do so.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ballgame99

... when you have a partner kick a call like this what are your options? I had a very similar play earlier this year where an inbounds pass hits under the backboard and carried into the court. Partner blows dead, calls it out of bounds and gives it to the other team.

You can always just ignore it and possibly discuss at halftime, or after the game, or ...

Immediate private on court conversation.

You: "What did you see on that?"
Partner: "Ball hit the back of the backboard. Out of bounds violation".
You: "Good call".
Play on.

You: ""What did you see on that?"
Partner: "Ball hit the bottom of the backboard. Out of bounds violation".
You: "Are you sure about that interpretation?"
Partner: "Yes"
Play on.
Possible discussion at halftime, or after the game.

You: ""What did you see on that?"
Partner: "Ball hit the bottom of the backboard. Out of bounds violation".
You: "Are you sure about that interpretation?"
Partner: "Not really"
You: "Only the back and supports are out of bounds, front, sides, top, and bottom are inbounds."
Partner: "Thanks. Inadvertent whistle. New throwin".
Play on.

You: ""What did you see on that?"
Partner: "Ball hit the bottom of the backboard. Out of bounds violation".
You: "Are you sure about that interpretation?"
Partner: "Yes. Screw you. Don't mess with my calls."
Play on.
File partner's name in memory to not offer help unless it's game breaker.

[Altor]

Thanks all. I agree with your assessment of the OP which happened in an 8th grade game I was watching last night from the stands.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You: ""What did you see on that?"
Partner: "Ball hit the bottom of the backboard. Out of bounds violation".
You: "Are you sure about that interpretation?"
Partner: "Not really"
You: "Only the back and supports are out of bounds, front, sides, top, and bottom are inbounds."
Partner: "Thanks. Inadvertent whistle. Alternating possession arrow."
Play on.

Billy brings me to my next question. Is the part in bold the correct procedure?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Altor

Thanks all. I agree with your assessment of the OP which happened in an 8th grade game I was watching last night from the stands.



Billy brings me to my next question. Is the part in bold the correct procedure?

If no one had legally touched the ball, the throwin has not ended. The POI would be another throwin for same team. Not the arrow in play you describe.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If no one had legally touched the ball, the throwin has not ended. The POI would be another throwin for same team. Not the arrow in play you describe.

And if the ball bounded directly into somebody's hands rather than not being touched, the POI would be a throw-in for the team with possession at the time of the IW.

Good job everybody. Gold stars all around.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If no one had legally touched the ball, the throwin has not ended. The POI would be another throwin for same team.

Originally Posted by Altor

And if the ball bounded directly into somebody's hands rather than not being touched, the POI would be a throw-in for the team with possession at the time of the IW.

So the violation (soon to be reversed), the dead ball, and the whistle don't matter?

It's like do-over?

Is it truly an inadvertent whistle or a whistle later determined to be a mistake and then rectified?

Is the point of interruption the violation, dead ball, and whistle; or the error correction?

[so cal lurker]

Seems to me you are making this way too complicated.

What stopped play? Can't be a violation as there wasn't one. So it has to be the whistle.

The whistle was a mistake--hence inadvertent.

What was the status when it blew? That's the POI: a not completed throw in.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So the violation (soon to be reversed), the dead ball, and the whistle don't matter?

It's like do-over?

Is it truly an inadvertent whistle or a whistle later determined to be a mistake and then rectified?

Is the point of interruption the violation, dead ball, and whistle; or the error correction?

Quit confusing people. If the officials get together and determine the whistle should never have been blown, it becomes an inadvertent whistle. When the did the inadvertent whistle occur? During a throw-in that had not ended. POI is the throw-in.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Altor

And if the ball bounded directly into somebody's hands rather than not being touched, the POI would be a throw-in for the team with possession at the time of the IW.

Seems simple, but is it by the book?

What if nine players responded to the whistle by doing nothing and only one responded by grabbing the ball?

Sounds a little (but not exactly the same) like when incorrect instructions are given by the officials on a free throw and some players react in one manner and others react in another manner.

8.6.1 SITUATION: A1 is about to attempt the first of a one-and-one free-throw situation. The administering official steps in and erroneously informs players that two free throws will be taken. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful. The missed free throw is rebounded by: (a) B1, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; (b) A2, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw; or (c) B2, with several players from both teams attempting to secure the rebound. The officials recognize their error at this point. RULING: In (a) and (b), the official's error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be ruled dead immediately and resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (c), both teams made an attempt to rebound despite the official's error and had an equal opportunity to gain possession of the rebound. Play should continue. (2-3; 2-10)

How often do coaches and officials tell kids to play the whistle?

Now I will agree that that doesn't sound like the simplest way to handle this, after all one player has possession of the ball, but I believe that, by rule, the officials should go to the alternating possession arrow.

[BillyMac]

Throwin, but no inadvertent whistle:

4.19.8 SITUATION F: A1 releases the ball on a throw-in, and before it is legally touched, A2 and B2 commit fouls against each other. RULING: When a double foul occurs, play is resumed at the point of interruption. Since Team A’s throw-in had not ended, the point of interruption would be a throw-in by Team A. (4-36-2b; 10 Penalty 1c)

Inadvertent whistle, player control, team control, no team control:

7.5.3 SITUATION: An official sounds his/her whistle inadvertently: (a) while A1 is dribbling and in player control; (b) while the pass is in flight from A1 (in A’s backcourt) to A2 (in A’s frontcourt); (c) while A1's unsuccessful three-point try attempt is in flight; or (d) while A’s successful try attempt is in flight. RULING: The ball is put in play at the point of interruption. In (a), Team A is awarded a throw-in at the nearest out-of-bounds spot to where the ball was when the whistle was inadvertently sounded. In (b), since the ball is being passed among teammates and is in flight, it retains the same location as when it was last in contact with A1 in Team A’s backcourt. Therefore, Team A is awarded a throw-in at the nearest out-of-bounds spot to where A1 was when the whistle was sounded. In (c) and (d), the ball does not become dead until the try ends. In (c), since there is no team control when the ball becomes dead, the ball is put in play by the team entitled to the throw-in using the alternating-possession procedure at a spot nearest to where A1 was last in contact with ball when the whistle was sounded. In (d), since a goal has been scored by Team A, the ball is given to Team B for a throw-in anywhere along the end line. (7-4-4; 4-4-3; 4-12-3,6; 4-36)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Altor

And if the ball bounded directly into somebody's hands rather than not being touched, the POI would be a throw-in for the team with possession at the time of the IW.

Is this incorrect, correct would be to have a throwin do-over?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Altor

And if the ball bounded directly into somebody's hands rather than not being touched, the POI would be a throw-in for the team with possession at the time of the IW.

Good job everybody. Gold stars all around.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is this incorrect, correct would be to have a throwin do-over?

What was the status of the ball at the time of the IW? Start there for every question you have about this subject.

[Altor]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Is this incorrect, correct would be to have a throwin do-over?

I knew I shouldn't have put that in there. Bad move on my part and just added confusion. I did it because I was originally going to make this point and decided to be more pithy:

If the inadvertent whistle from the OP occurred
a) before any player touched the throw-in, the POI is a throw-in for Team A.
b) after a player touched the throw-in in bounds but before any player controlled the ball, the POI is the arrow
c) after a player controlled the ball, the POI is a throw-in for the team in control.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If no one had legally touched the ball, the throwin has not ended. The POI would be another throwin for same team. Not the arrow in play you describe.

Seems like a fair resolution, but is it by the book?

Who has team control just prior to the inadvertent whistle?

Nobody.

Basketball Points of Emphasis - 2017-18
Team control, throw-in. The relevance of team control during a throw-in only applies when a member of the throw- in team fouls. Such fouls shall be ruled team control fouls. Team control during a throw-in is NOT intended to be the same as player control/team control inbounds. Team control inbounds is established when a player from either team who has inbound status gains control of the ball. During the throw-in, 10-seconds, 3-seconds, frontcourt status, backcourt status, closely guarded, etc., are NOT factors as there has yet to be player control/team control obtained inbounds.

4-36: Point Of Interruption
ART. 1 Method of resuming play due to an official's inadvertent
whistle, an interrupted game, as in 5-4-3, a correctable error, as in 2-10-6,
a double personal, double technical or simultaneous foul, as in 4-19-8 and
4-19-10.
ART. 2 Play shall be resumed by one of the following methods:
a. A throw-in to the team that was in control at an out-of-bounds spot
nearest to where the ball was located when the interruption occurred.
b. A free throw or a throw-in when the interruption occurred during
this activity or if a team is entitled to such.
c. A jump ball or alternating-possession throw-in when neither team
is in control and no goal, infraction, nor end of quarter/extra period is
involved when the game is interrupted.
ART. 3 When the ball remains live after a violation or foul (as in 4-19-
8) during a try for goal, the point of interruption is determined to be when
the ball becomes dead following the violation or foul.

Since neither team has team control at the time of the inadvertent whistle, I suggest that, by rule, the officials should go to the alternating possession arrow.

Now I will agree that that doesn't sound fair, but I believe it's by the book.

[bob jenkins]

Cite the POI rule.