Stall Ball ...

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by CJP

Massive investment? North and South Dakota are about as conservative as they come. If both of those states can make the change, any state can do it. Finding table personal has also been a challenge that is not really challenging. I have officiated in some very small, rural, communities and they get it done.

North and South Dakota are also as sparsely populated as they come. I’m in Florida...there has to be THOUSANDS of high schools here so I think it would be a massive investment.

Maybe it’s our distracted student population or (lack of) basketball popularity, but table personnel are VERY challenging here. A shot clock will not help our cause in my opinion.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

North and South Dakota are also as sparsely populated as they come. I’m in Florida...there has to be THOUSANDS of high schools here so I think it would be a massive investment.

Maybe it’s our distracted student population or (lack of) basketball popularity, but table personnel are VERY challenging here. A shot clock will not help our cause in my opinion.

I know one school paid about $7500 (installed) for new shot clock equipment. It is not that expensive.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by CJP

I know one school paid about $7500 (installed) for new shot clock equipment. It is not that expensive.

That is more than I will make officiating for the entire season!
So it would more than double a school’s expense for basketball. In other words the school could pay for all of the officials for the entire season for less than that amount.

Not likely that shot clocks are coming.

[CJP]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That is more than I will make officiating for the entire season!
So it would more than double a school’s expense for basketball. In other words the school could pay for all of the officials for the entire season for less than that amount.

Not likely that shot clocks are coming.

It would not double the schools basketball budget. Don't be so dramatic.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CJP

It would not double the schools basketball budget. Don't be so dramatic.

Well, are you sure? What would the rule be? Only varsity? There are schools that have multiple gyms. So it could drastically increase the budget of many schools. Heck schools a few years ago were complaining about not being able to buy new uniforms in just one sport, so not sure why this is not a bigger expense. Granted it might be mostly a one-time big expense up front, but that is still a big expense.

Peace

[CJP]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well, are you sure? What would the rule be? Only varsity? There are schools that have multiple gyms. So it could drastically increase the budget of many schools. Heck schools a few years ago were complaining about not being able to buy new uniforms in just one sport, so not sure why this is not a bigger expense. Granted it might be mostly a one-time big expense up front, but that is still a big expense.

Peace

My idea of a high school basketball budget is all basketball related personnel (coaches, clock operators, and officials) , equipment and uniforms for grades 9-12. If you only want to "charge" the cost of the clocks to the teams that use them, I see them used at the V, Jv, and freshman levels. Most programs I see have 4 coaches (boys and girls). It is a safe bet that those 4 coaches have a combined salary of $15K.

If you don't like what the cost of clocks will be, let your local school board know. The cost to me as a taxpayer was not noticeable (at least the way things work in my parts).

My state has them. I like them. I did not go broke paying for them.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by CJP

My idea of a high school basketball budget is all basketball related personnel (coaches, clock operators, and officials) , equipment and uniforms for grades 9-12. If you only want to "charge" the cost of the clocks to the teams that use them, I see them used at the V, Jv, and freshman levels. Most programs I see have 4 coaches (boys and girls). It is a safe bet that those 4 coaches have a combined salary of $15K.

If you don't like what the cost of clocks will be, let your local school board know. The cost to me as a taxpayer was not noticeable (at least the way things work in my parts).

My state has them. I like them. I did not go broke paying for them.

I do not think it really matters what the basketball budget is. The athletic department in many areas is claiming they are strapped for money and they are struggling for uniforms, they might not be able to easily cover this cost. That is why IMO it has never passed nationally. Sure some sponsorships might help, but not all schools have those kinds of extra funds coming in. And at least where I am, coaches are often school employees and paid more for being a teacher and not being a coach. It is a package deal to hire a coach/teacher. And not all schools are using taxpayer money. Private schools also apply and many of them might be able to get the money, but it would take some effort to do so.

NOt saying it cannot ever be done. IT could, but not sure why this is such an issue when it very rarely happens. We have enough problems at the small college ranks with table people and now we are thinking we will have no problems with a shot clock at thousands of schools across the country. We will hear of many situations were the clock becomes a bigger factor than it is now.

Peace

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by CJP

I know one school paid about $7500 (installed).... It is not that expensive.

That’s a hell of a lot more than I would have guessed...that IS expensive.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by CJP

I know one school paid about $7500 (installed) for new shot clock equipment. It is not that expensive.

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

That’s a hell of a lot more than I would have guessed...that IS expensive.

I'm in the "expensive" camp. Let's assume a school hosts 50 combined varsity and JV games in a season. Now take the cost of the shot clock and divide by 50 to get $150/per game. To reduce that down to the $5 raise that a 3-person official in, say, Wisconsin, could certainly use would take 10 years (150/10=15, 15/3=5). So investing in a shot clock could conceivably set back a modest $5 officials' pay raise by 10 years (and that's just the varsity officials; this says nothing for sub-varsity officials). That would be a significant loss in pay after inflation.

I'm in a state right now where I think the pay is frankly too high, but in lots of places it's way too low with severe reluctance to raise it. Yet we feel obligated to mandate a shot clock? Yeah....no wonder Wisconsin reconsidered it's shot clock dictum last year. That was a smart decision.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I'm in a state right now where I think the pay is frankly too high ...

In the words of Isaac Hayes, "Shut your mouth".

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In the words of Isaac Hayes, "Shut your mouth".

If I were getting overpaid for 3-person, I'd agree with you. But right now I'm getting paid $89/game to miss a lot of stuff and sometimes guess. I'd gladly give up 20% of that fee in exchange for a second partner.

[griblets]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I’m in Florida...there has to be THOUSANDS of high schools here so I think it would be a massive investment.

Maybe it’s our distracted student population or (lack of) basketball popularity, but table personnel are VERY challenging here. A shot clock will not help our cause in my opinion.

I'm in FL, too, and I couldn't agree more. The expense would be enormous and not worth the "benefit." Some schools barely have a functioning game clock, let alone a shot clock. We often can't get personnel who can properly start and stop the game clock.

Adding a shot clock in FL would create many more problems than it would solve.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by griblets

Some schools barely have a functioning game clock, let alone a shot clock. We often can't get personnel who can properly start and stop the game clock.

Here in overly expensive and overly taxed Connecticut, we always hear about how cheap it is to live down South. Maybe now I know why?

[Pantherdreams]

Almost every game i officiate has a shot clock now so bias beware.

I don't have a dog in the fight. As an official there is definitely less for me to manage and the table to manage when there is no shot clock. Teams tend to make the game easier or more difficult to officiate not the built in pace or deliberate play.

As a basketball person I think everyone should have to play with a shot clock. There are good and bad teams and good and bad basketball with both. However, shot clock basketball puts the game back in kids hands. I see more kids who are trained to play, more kids taking shots, more coaches who have to communicate with players rather than direct players. I think the coaches have to be better at connecting, teaching and developing players in shot clock game as their work has to be done before they hand it over to the kids. The no shot clock game allows the game to be about fewer kids, possessions, and players and be more coach controlled.

As an official I could care less one way or the other. As a basketball fan and ambassador give the shot clock game and type of players/coaches everytime.