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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 09:28am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I don't see the point in extending this. I will probably never officiate another high school ball game without a shot clock.
OK. Just keep in mind, none of us here will ever make this decision anyway.

Peace
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 09:51am
CJP CJP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
OK. Just keep in mind, none of us here will ever make this decision anyway.

Peace
Exactly. I will avoid future discussions about this topic because we already have the shot clock. What works or does not work other areas, financially, is none of my concern.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 10:13am
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Theme From Shaft (1971) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
I'm in a state right now where I think the pay is frankly too high ...
In the words of Isaac Hayes, "Shut your mouth".
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 10:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
In the words of Isaac Hayes, "Shut your mouth".
If I were getting overpaid for 3-person, I'd agree with you. But right now I'm getting paid $89/game to miss a lot of stuff and sometimes guess. I'd gladly give up 20% of that fee in exchange for a second partner.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 10:33am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
Exactly. I will avoid future discussions about this topic because we already have the shot clock. What works or does not work other areas, financially, is none of my concern.
Again, OK. They could never bring in the shot clock, the game will be just fine as it always has been. It is not going to make it better.

Peace
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 10:41am
CJP CJP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Again, OK. They could never bring in the shot clock, the game will be just fine as it always has been. It is not going to make it better.

Peace
I "Do not give a damn". We already have it.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 10:44am
Do not give a damn!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I "Do not give a damn". We already have it.
Then if you do not give a damn, then why did you tell us what schools in a state you do not belong can afford? IJS.

I really do not give a damn. Neither state I work has a shot clock and appears to not be getting it on their own at all. I am not even sure if they would do it if the NF makes it a rule.

Peace
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 10:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Then why did you tell us what schools in a state you do not belong can afford?
Peace
I shouldn't have.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
This is such a solution looking for a problem.

If you operate under the assumption that this type of basketball is an abomination and should be banned, the reality is that it's only employed in a microscopic percentage of high school games. Based on social media you would think half of the high school coaches in the country employ stall ball; that's simply not true. Why don't more defenses pressure opponents that play this style of offense and force them to do something?

Cost is a big deal whether or not people like to hear it. Granted, I find it humorous to hear schools b*tch and moan about not having money to give officials a modest pay increase while simultaneously rolling out the "latest and greatest" new uniforms every year and spending a fortune to make their gyms look the best in the state. A shot clock sounds great until administrators see the price tag just for the equipment; then there are the installation costs as well as having to pay and train someone competent enough to run the thing correctly. Heck some schools have scoreboards that are so old that I'm not even sure it's possible to synchronize and wire the shot clocks; so now you're asking them to buy new scoreboards, as well. And many schools have more than one gym.

For as many issues as there are running shot clocks correctly at the small college level, those problems get magnified in high school and turn into big headaches for officials. Also there are so many 20-year "veteran" officials that I would not feel comfortable managing the shot clock and learning all the rules (in many cases they can't even manage the game clock).

What is the reward of enduring these growing pains? To be more like college? To force more (bad) shots?

Also, people forget that this is high school basketball. A coach's job is to employ the best strategy for his/her team to win. At the high school level the talent spectrum is much wider than the college level, so it's not unreasonable that the rules allow for more strategies to be competitive regardless of how "entertaining" they may be. HS sports do not exist to entertain fans nor to "get kids ready for the next level."

At most I could see the NFHS making this an allowable state adoption. I do not see it being mandated nationwide. And if it were it wouldn't be immediate; there would be a 3-5 year buffer to allow schools and states to budget properly and implement all the requirements.
If it was up to me, I would mandate the shot clock for postseason play, because that is where the stalling strategy is most likely to rear it's ugly head (early rounds can have one team coming in who is over matched relative to the other). In many cases, postseason games (especially in later rounds), are played at neutral sites that already have functioning shot clock equipment. For early rounds, I would have nearby sites with shot clock capabilities host the games, in the event that neither competing schools have shot clocks, or bring in portable shot clock units (those can be had as cheaply as $279). In this way, the games that matter in the postseason would have a shot clock, and states would be able to decide whether shot clocks should be adopted in the regular season as well. If enough schools acquire shot clocks on their own, for the postseason or as part of a routine scoreboard upgrade, there is no reason for shot clocks not to be implemented for the regular season. This is exactly what DC charter schools are doing (public and private schools already have permanent or portable shot clock units).
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:05pm
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Worst ... Idea ... Ever ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
If it was up to me, I would mandate the shot clock for postseason play ...
Absolutely horrible idea. To expect teams/coaches/players/table crew/officials that have played twenty games with no shot clock to suddenly be expected to play and adjust to one is utter nonsense.

C'mon ilyazhito. You're better than this. Did somebody put something in your coffee this morning? I'm certain that you didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jan 14, 2019 at 12:38pm.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:16pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
If it was up to me, I would mandate the shot clock for postseason play...
No, just no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Absolutely horrible idea. To expect teams/coaches/players that have played twenty games with no shot clock to suddenly be expected to play and adjust to one is utter nonsense.
You didn't even mention the group that might have the hardest time adjusting...

...the officials.

I guess under his proposal we would only use college officials for the postseason?
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:20pm
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Table Crew ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
You didn't even mention the group that might have the hardest time adjusting ... the officials.
Fixed it, and added table crew.
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  #43 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Zebra View Post
I’m in Florida...there has to be THOUSANDS of high schools here so I think it would be a massive investment.

Maybe it’s our distracted student population or (lack of) basketball popularity, but table personnel are VERY challenging here. A shot clock will not help our cause in my opinion.
I'm in FL, too, and I couldn't agree more. The expense would be enormous and not worth the "benefit." Some schools barely have a functioning game clock, let alone a shot clock. We often can't get personnel who can properly start and stop the game clock.

Adding a shot clock in FL would create many more problems than it would solve.
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  #44 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 12:45pm
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Back Up The Moving Van ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by griblets View Post
Some schools barely have a functioning game clock, let alone a shot clock. We often can't get personnel who can properly start and stop the game clock.
Here in overly expensive and overly taxed Connecticut, we always hear about how cheap it is to live down South. Maybe now I know why?

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  #45 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 14, 2019, 01:05pm
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Almost every game i officiate has a shot clock now so bias beware.

I don't have a dog in the fight. As an official there is definitely less for me to manage and the table to manage when there is no shot clock. Teams tend to make the game easier or more difficult to officiate not the built in pace or deliberate play.

As a basketball person I think everyone should have to play with a shot clock. There are good and bad teams and good and bad basketball with both. However, shot clock basketball puts the game back in kids hands. I see more kids who are trained to play, more kids taking shots, more coaches who have to communicate with players rather than direct players. I think the coaches have to be better at connecting, teaching and developing players in shot clock game as their work has to be done before they hand it over to the kids. The no shot clock game allows the game to be about fewer kids, possessions, and players and be more coach controlled.

As an official I could care less one way or the other. As a basketball fan and ambassador give the shot clock game and type of players/coaches everytime.
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