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Old Tue Jan 08, 2019, 10:46pm
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Player Control for Time-Out

Happened to me tonight. 2nd free throw is missed by home team with ~4 seconds left in the game. They are ahead by 3 points. During the rebound, Visitor coach runs at me (I'm near the scorer's table) and yells "Time Out", even though his player 1 is batting the ball from the rebound to his player b. I grant the time-out. Home coach goes crazy.

I think I missed this call - reading again tonight in 5-8-3, it talks about timeouts can only be granted when the ball is in control of a player - I'm thinking that batting the ball is not player control????
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Old Tue Jan 08, 2019, 10:56pm
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You're correct … that you were incorrect.

Look up the definition of player control.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2019, 08:45am
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And since a timeout was requested, it can't be revoked even though erroneously granted. Resume play with the AP arrow following the TO since there was no team control.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2019, 10:38am
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Timeout ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by billenglish61 View Post
5-8-3, it talks about timeouts can only be granted when the ball is in control of a player - I'm thinking that batting the ball is not player control?
4-12-1: A player is in control of the ball when he/she is holding or -
dribbling a live ball. There is no player control when, during a jump ball, a
jumper catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper,
or during an interrupted dribble.

5-8-3: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, shall be stopped when an
official: Grants and signals a player’s/head coach’s oral or visual
request for a time-out, such request being granted only when:
a. The ball is at the disposal or in control of a player of his/her team.
b. The ball is dead, unless replacement of a disqualified, or injured
player(s), or a player directed to leave the game is pending, and a
substitute(s) is available and required.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2019, 10:40am
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Granted Without Being Requested. ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
And since a timeout was requested, it can't be revoked even though erroneously granted.
SC Official's post is 100% correct for the original post, requested and granted.

Young'uns should know that granted timeouts can be "revoked" under certain circumstances, when the timeout is granted without being requested.

5.8.3 SITUATION E: A1 is dribbling the ball in his/her
backcourt when: (a) the Team B head coach requests and is
erroneously granted a time-out by an official; or (b) the Team
A head coach is yelling “side out” offensive instructions to
his/her team and the official stops play believing the coach
requested a time-out. RULING: In (a), Team B is entitled to
use the time-out since it was requested and granted; once
granted it cannot be revoked and is charged to Team B. All
privileges and rights permitted during a charged time-out are
available to both teams. Play will resume with a Team A
throw-in nearest to where play was stopped. In (b), an
inadvertent whistle has occurred. Team A was not requesting
a time-out, and therefore, should not be granted or charged
with one. Play is resumed at the point of interruption. (4-36-1;
4-36-2a)
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jan 09, 2019 at 11:01am.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2019, 10:53am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Already fixed it before your post. Your post was 100% correct for the original post. I just wanted young'uns to know that granted timeouts can be "revoked" under certain circumstances. Interpretation cited was a good one, I just did poor job of introducing it.
Post deleted.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2019, 11:17am
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To Substitute, Or Not To Substitute, That Is The Question ...

(With apologies to Hamlet and Billy Shakespeare.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
And since a timeout was requested, it can't be revoked even though erroneously granted.
For the young'uns. Reminds me of a slightly off topic situation when the table crew screws up and sounds the horn for substitutes at a time when substitutes aren't allowed to enter and the official sounds his whistle to address/question the sounding of the horn.

I've seen officials, at this point, not allow the substitutes to enter and force them to wait at the table until the next opportunity to substitute.

They have to be allowed to enter. After the whistle to address/question the horn the ball is dead and the clock is stopped. An official cannot not allow the substitutes to enter at this time.

3-3-1-D: If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute
who is entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer
shall use a sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is
dead and the clock is stopped.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jan 09, 2019 at 11:20am.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2019, 11:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
(With apologies to Hamlet and Billy Shakespeare.)



For the young'uns. Reminds me of a slightly off topic situation when the table crew screws up and sounds the horn for substitutes at a time when substitutes aren't allowed to enter and the official sounds his whistle to address/question the sounding of the horn.

I've seen officials, at this point, not allow the substitutes to enter and force them to wait at the table until the next opportunity to substitute.

They have to be allowed to enter. After the whistle to address/question the horn the ball is dead and the clock is stopped. An official cannot not allow the substitutes to enter at this time.

3-3-1-D: If entry is at any time other than between quarters, and a substitute
who is entitled and ready to enter reports to the scorer, the scorer
shall use a sounding device or game horn, if, or as soon as, the ball is
dead and the clock is stopped.
For the young'uns, this rule is different at the college level in the last minute of regulation and overtime.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2019, 11:30am
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Say It Ain't So (Weezer, 1994) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
For the young'uns, this rule is different at the college level in the last minute of regulation and overtime.
No way? Highly paid, highly experienced, highly trained, very professional college table crews screw up and sound the horn for substitutes at a time when substitutes aren't allowed to enter? Please say it ain't so.
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Old Wed Jan 09, 2019, 11:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
No way? Highly paid, highly experienced, highly trained, very professional college table crews screw up and sound the horn for substitutes at a time when substitutes aren't allowed to enter? Please say it ain't so.
Or an official blowing his whistle when he shouldn't have. Here are just 2 case plays, there are more:

A.R. 45. After a successful field goal with 48 seconds left on the game clock, the timer sounds the game-clock horn for substitute A6 to enter the game.

RULING: A6 shall not be permitted to enter. While the game clock is stopped after successful field goals in the last 59.9 seconds of play, only
those substitutions permitted by rule are allowed. A team may request a timeout and then make substitutions anytime the ball is dead and the
game clock is stopped.

(Rule 3-6.1.h)

A.R. 46. Team A scores with 59.9 seconds left to play in the second half.

1. The timer fails to stop the game clock. The official blows his whistle to stop the clock and to correct the mistake. During this stoppage, Team A
requests a timeout; or

2. The official inadvertently blows his whistle to recognize a timeout request by Team A when the ball is at Team B’s disposal for a throw-in; or

3. Team B is having difficulty inbounding the ball because of defensive pressure and requests a timeout.

May these timeout requests be granted and when are substitutions permitted to enter the game?

RULING 1: The request by either team for a timeout shall be recognized and granted since the request was made during a dead ball.
Substitutions are permitted during this timeout period. However, when a timeout is not requested, there shall be no substitution during the
dead-ball period created by the timer’s mistake.

2: The inadvertent whistle shall be ignored. When Team A requests a timeout during this dead ball, the timeout shall be recognized and
granted since the request occurred during the dead ball created by the inadvertent whistle. Substitutions are permitted during this
timeout period. However, when a timeout is not requested, there shall be no substitution during the dead-ball period created by the
inadvertent whistle.

3: Team B’s request for a timeout shall be recognized and granted because a player of that team is in control of the ball. Substitutions
are permitted during this timeout.

(Rule 3-6.1.h)
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