When to start 10 second count?

[bob jenkins]

NCAAW Interp (correct because the NCAAW rule is different from FED's rule):

DATE:

1/2/2019

RULE:

4-8-2

QUESTION:

Team A has control of the ball in the front court. B2 deflects the ball deep into the back court and A2 runs back and receives the ball back by the free throw line. Because team A was still in team control does the 10 second counts start when the ball crosses the division line or when A2 picks the ball up?

ANSWER:

No part of the backcourt count is predicated on the ball crossing the division line. When B2 deflected the ball into the backcourt, the ten-second count begins when any player touches the ball in Team A’s backcourt (Rule 9-10; A.R. 233 [1]).

Here's the relevant rule:

Section 10. 10-Second Backcourt
The 10-second count shall begin when a player legally touches the ball in her
team’s backcourt except on a rebound or jump ball. In such case, the 10-second
count shall start on player control. Once the 10-second count begins, an
inbounds player (and her team) shall not be in continuous control of a ball that
is in her backcourt for 10 consecutive seconds. The 10-second count shall be
reset on all stoppages of the game clock except when the opponents cause the
ball to be out of bounds, the team in control retains possession following a held
ball, a technical foul is assessed to the team in control, or the team in control
is granted a timeout.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... the NCAAW rule is different from FED's rule ... Section 10. 10-Second Backcourt

Maybe that's why the NFHS came out with the annual interpretation (2008-09 SITUATION 8), because high school officials were confusing the high school rule with the college rule?

Originally Posted by BillyMac

... the NFHS must have thought that something "fishy" was going on to make this situation an annual interpretation.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

NCAAW Interp (correct because the NCAAW rule is different from FED's rule):

DATE:

1/2/2019

RULE:

4-8-2

QUESTION:

Team A has control of the ball in the front court. B2 deflects the ball deep into the back court and A2 runs back and receives the ball back by the free throw line. Because team A was still in team control does the 10 second counts start when the ball crosses the division line or when A2 picks the ball up?

ANSWER:

No part of the backcourt count is predicated on the ball crossing the division line. When B2 deflected the ball into the backcourt, the ten-second count begins when any player touches the ball in Team A’s backcourt (Rule 9-10; A.R. 233 [1]).

Here's the relevant rule:

Section 10. 10-Second Backcourt
The 10-second count shall begin when a player legally touches the ball in her
team’s backcourt except on a rebound or jump ball. In such case, the 10-second count shall start on player control. Once the 10-second count begins, an inbounds player (and her team) shall not be in continuous control of a ball that is in her backcourt for 10 consecutive seconds. The 10-second count shall be reset on all stoppages of the game clock except when the opponents cause the ball to be out of bounds, the team in control retains possession following a held ball, a technical foul is assessed to the team in control, or the team in control is granted a timeout.

They seem to go out of their way to emphasize that the ball crossing the division line having no affect a 10-second count starting. I don't think that's an argument anybody has ever tried to make. Why nothing on the more pertinent part of this conversation, the ball attaining BC status while in continuous TC? We all know the 10-second count terminates once the ball gains FC status, regardless of PC. The relevant variable to this conversation should be the reverse--should a 10-second count start when the ball attains BC status while in continuous TC.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

They seem to go out of their way to emphasize that the ball crossing the division line having no affect a 10-second count starting.

For our high school only members that see this college interpretation, I don't like the phrase "crossing the division line".

The ball crossing the plane of the division line (in the air) is not only not relevant to the college ten second count, it's also not relevant to the application of the high school ten second count, the ball must touch someone in the backcourt, or the floor in the backcourt, to begin the high school ten second count in the situation that we've been discussing, not simply cross the plane of the division line in the air.

Of course, all Forum members are what'cha call experts, and we would never think that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

For our high school only members that see this college interpretation, I don't like the phrase "crossing the division line".

The ball crossing the plane of the division line (in the air) is not only not relevant to the college ten second count, it's also not relevant to the application of the high school ten second count, the ball must touch someone in the backcourt, or the floor in the backcourt, to begin the high school ten second count in the situation that we've been discussing, not simply cross the plane of the division line in the air.
....

That's exactly my point to Bob. That's a worthless test question because it discusses something no one ever gets confused about. The confusion, understandably, is a ball that gains BC status while in continuous TC after previously being in the FC. As far as I can tell in that test question, the ball never touched the floor in the backcourt, thus duh, it didn't gain BC status until the A2 caught the ball.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

That's exactly my point to Bob. That's a worthless test question because it discusses something no one ever gets confused about. The confusion, understandably, is a ball that gains BC status while in continuous TC after previously being in the FC. As far as I can tell in that test question, the ball never touched the floor in the backcourt, thus duh, it didn't gain BC status until the A2 caught the ball.

It's not a test question, it's an answer by the secretary rules-editor to a question submitted to him.

My interp is that the ball hitting the floor before A gets to it is implied (but I agree it could be stated). I don't think I've ever seen a ball deflected to the back court that went more than a couple of feet before hitting the floor (or being caught).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Raymond

They seem to go out of their way to emphasize that the ball crossing the division line having no affect a 10-second count starting. I don't think that's an argument anybody has ever tried to make. Why nothing on the more pertinent part of this conversation, the ball attaining BC status while in continuous TC? We all know the 10-second count terminates once the ball gains FC status, regardless of PC. The relevant variable to this conversation should be the reverse--should a 10-second count start when the ball attains BC status while in continuous TC.

The rule makes it clear (at least to me). It details when, always, the count starts -- in the OP (and in all instances except a jump ball or a rebound), it's when the ball is touched.