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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 10:28am
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Jump Ball - Start the game (Video)

Interesting play last night.



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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 11:20am
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The jumper from white looks like he had a clear chance to grab the ball but seems like he thought that he couldn't. Should have been able to grab it though once it had touched another player. A good point though to be ready to officiate as soon as the ball goes up. I have had one or two unique situations this year right from the jump that caught me off guard.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 11:36am
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Enough Is Enough ...

Start games by giving the ball to the visitors at the division line opposite the table and avoid all this nineteenth century nonsense.

(A preemptive post to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.: Shut up.)

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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jan 03, 2019 at 11:57am.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 11:40am
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Jumpers are supposed to stay within their half of center circle til jump is over. Here, they both crossed division line before ball was touched by non jumper. The player in white was more obvious than red. Hard pressed to call these..
I don’t think red player had control...he did push ball down but not sure I see enough for control. Definitely a lot going on. Need to be ready...
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 11:46am
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For The Good Of The Cause ...

And, yes, you have to know this for the test.

RULE 6 SECTION 3 JUMP-BALL ADMINISTRATION

ART. 1 . . . For any jump ball, each jumper shall have both feet within that
half of the center restraining circle which is farther from his/her basket.

ART. 2 . . . When the official is ready and until the ball is tossed,
nonjumpers shall not:
a. Move onto the center restraining circle.
b. Change position around the center restraining circle.

ART. 3 . . . Teammates may not occupy adjacent positions around the
center restraining circle if an opponent indicates a desire for one of these
positions before the official is ready to toss the ball.

ART. 4 . . . The ball shall be tossed upward between the jumpers in a
plane at right angles to the sidelines. The toss shall be to a height greater
than either of them can jump so that it will drop between them.

ART. 5 . . . Until the tossed ball is touched by one or both jumpers,
nonjumpers shall not:
a. Have either foot break the plane of the center restraining circle
cylinder.
b. Take a position in any occupied space.

ART. 6 . . . The tossed ball must be touched by one or both of the jumpers
after it reaches its highest point. If the ball contacts the floor without being
touched by at least one of the jumpers, the official shall toss it again.

ART. 7 . . . Neither jumper shall:
a. Touch the tossed ball before it reaches its highest point.
b. Leave the center restraining circle until the ball has been touched.
c. Catch the ball before the jump ball ends.
d. Touch the ball more than twice.

ART. 8 . . . The jump ball and the restrictions in 6-3-7 end when the
touched ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a
basket or backboard.

NOTE: During a jump ball, a jumper is not required to face his/her own
basket, provided he/she is in the proper half of the center restraining circle.
The jumper is also not required to jump and attempt to touch the tossed
ball. However, if neither jumper touches the ball it should be tossed again
with both jumpers being ordered to jump and try to touch the ball.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jan 03, 2019 at 11:56am.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 12:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
Jumpers are supposed to stay within their half of center circle til jump is over.
Interesting that this is implied in the 6-3 "Note," but not specifically among the jumper's restrictions in 6-3-7.

Hmm. Have we opened a Pandora's Box just like we did with the TI/TC debate?

In general, though this was messy, I ultimately saw nothing I would whistle even in slow motion review. I thought when I first started watching the video I might be looking for a backcourt violation, but indeed I never saw definite player control until the dust had finally settled. So....play on.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 12:30pm
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Restriction Ends ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Interesting that this is implied in the 6-3 "Note," but not specifically among the jumper's restrictions in 6-3-7.
ART. 1 For any jump ball, each jumper shall have both feet within that
half of the center restraining circle which is farther from his/her basket.

ART. 7 Neither jumper shall:
a. Touch the tossed ball before it reaches its highest point.
b. Leave the center restraining circle until the ball has been touched.
c. Catch the ball before the jump ball ends.
d. Touch the ball more than twice.

ART. 8 The jump ball and the restrictions in 6-3-7 end when the
touched ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a
basket or backboard.


NOTE: During a jump ball, a jumper is not required to face his/her own
basket, provided he/she is in the proper half of the center restraining circle.


Article 8 tells us when the restrictions end for Article 7 (jumpers shall not: touch the tossed ball before it reaches its highest point, leave the center restraining circle until the ball has been touched, catch the ball before the jump ball ends, touch the ball more than twice) but the restriction for where the jumpers must have their feet (within that half of the center restraining circle which is farther from his/her basket) is in Article 1 (and the Note), and there is no indication of when the Article 1 (and the Note) restriction ends.

Interesting. Very interesting.

I say again:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Start games by giving the ball to the visitors at the division line opposite the table and avoid all this nineteenth century nonsense.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jan 03, 2019 at 12:55pm.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 12:30pm
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I think this was a very well officiated play. Nothing IMO happened here. It was just interesting to watch the ball go back and forth over the division line and no one violated or called for a violation. The Jumpers did nothing wrong. The ball was touched by both of them it appears and they can leave the area. The NC Jumper did appear to feel he was not going to be able to touch the ball, but he could have. Then the ball goes back and forth being touched by Harvard, but no control appeared to have taken place until the player on the floor grabs the ball with both hands. The only issue might be if the player laying on the division line is touching the ball when it is controlled by his teammate. But the Referee or tossing official was standing right there to know for sure. I thought it was a very well done job and I have seen similar plays called violations in college games. At least the officials were on top of this or just did not see anything that stood out.

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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 02:01pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
[I]ART. 1 For any jump ball, each jumper shall have both feet within that half of the center restraining circle which is farther from his/her basket.

Article 8 tells us when the restrictions end for Article 7....but the restriction for where the jumpers must have their feet (within that half of the center restraining circle which is farther from his/her basket) is in Article 1 (and the Note), and there is no indication of when the Article 1 (and the Note) restriction ends.
I believe Article 1 is meant to apply to where the jumpers start and must be until it is tossed and nothing more.

There is nothing to be called on this play. I looked at the possibility of a backcourt violation but red never gained PC in the frontcourt before it was deflected into thier BC where a red player picked up the ball.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 03:01pm
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Oh, That NFHS ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
I believe Article 1 is meant to apply to where the jumpers start and must be until it is tossed and nothing more.
Sounds like a plan, but why wouldn't the NFHS stipulate that? Wait ... I'm being told ... Oh, that NFHS? Never mind.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 04:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
Jumpers are supposed to stay within their half of center circle til jump is over....
...the ball is touched.


NCAA-Men's Rule 9-8-Art. 1. It is a violation when:
b. Either jumper leaves the center circle before the ball has been touched by a jumper, catches the jump ball, or touches it more than twice.
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Last edited by Raymond; Thu Jan 03, 2019 at 04:27pm.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 05:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
...the ball is touched.


NCAA-Men's Rule 9-8-Art. 1. It is a violation when:
b. Either jumper leaves the center circle before the ball has been touched by a jumper, catches the jump ball, or touches it more than twice.
I’m aware of that rule. Neither player here left the center circle. Red foot crossed over to NC side and NC player crossed into red side. Both still in circle. First portion of rule says each player to stay in their half of center circle. NFHS note says stay in your own half “during jump ball.” Jump ball ends when touches non jumper, floor etc...I certainly wouldn’t have a call here but I was looking for anything might be diffferent just based on way Jeff phrased it/question...

Last edited by BigCat; Thu Jan 03, 2019 at 05:30pm.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 05:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
I’m aware of that rule. Neither player here left the center circle. Red foot crossed over to NC side and NC player crossed into red side. Both still in circle. First portion of rule says each player to stay in their half of center circle. NFHS note says stay in your own half “during jump ball.” Jump ball ends when touches non jumper, floor etc...I certainly wouldn’t have a call here but I was looking for anything might be diffferent just based on way Jeff phrased it/question...
I don't see anything in the high school rule that Billy quoted that says when that restriction ends.

There is definitely nothing in the college rules that states when that restriction ends. Of course the college rule explicitly states what is a violation whereas the high school rules refer you back to 6-3.

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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 06:03pm
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Hidden In The Note ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
NFHS note says stay in your own half “during jump ball.” Jump ball ends when touches non jumper, floor etc. ...
NOTE: During a jump ball a jumper is not required to face his/her own
basket, provided he/she is in the proper half of the center restraining circle.

ART. 8 The jump ball and the restrictions in 6-3-7 end when the
touched ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a
basket or backboard
.


Nice citation BigCat.
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Old Thu Jan 03, 2019, 06:08pm
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Durng The Jump Ball, When Does The Jump Ball End ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
I don't see anything in the high school rule that Billy quoted that says when that restriction ends.
I also thought so until BigCat showed me the light. It's hidden in the note.

During a jump ball a jumper ... is in the proper half of the center restraining circle ... which is farther from his/her basket. The jump ball end(s) when the touched ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a basket or backboard.

Poorly written by NFHS (so what else is new), ending the restriction should be in the rule itself rather than a subsequent note.

I'm a basketball official, not a detective (with apologies to Dr. Leonard "Bones" McCoy).

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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Jan 03, 2019 at 06:31pm.
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