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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:14pm
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New Wording ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
... rule would be changed so that restriction would end when the tossed ball is touched.
Good, so at least you agree that there should be a point in time when this restriction ends and that this violation should be enforced as a newly written rule?

So under this new wording, it would be a violation for one jumper to cross the division line after the toss but before tap (which can only legally be tapped after it has reached its highest point)?

So the NFHS intended this restriction to end a few seconds before the present wording?

That's what we've been quibbling about in this thread, a few seconds?

Well, at least BigCat came up with the correct interpretation of the rule as it exists right now, before any NFHS changes due to a new intent interpretation.

During a jump ball a jumper ... is in the proper half of the center restraining circle ... which is farther from his/her basket. The jump ball end(s) when the touched ball contacts one of the eight nonjumpers, an official, the floor, a basket or backboard.

We can all agree that this is the present wording, right?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jan 05, 2019 at 07:17pm.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:16pm
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Isn't Aware ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
It's a violation. How come there has not been a point of emphasis yet to get us to call it correctly?
Maybe the NFHS isn't aware that you have been calling it incorrectly?
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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Maybe the NFHS isn't aware that you have been calling it incorrectly?
Every single referee is calling it incorrectly. Because nobody has called a jumper for landing on the other side of the division line.

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Last edited by Raymond; Sat Jan 05, 2019 at 07:27pm.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:28pm
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Look Up ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Every single referee is calling it incorrectly. Because nobody is called a jumper for landing on the other side of the division line.
Because if it's happened, and I'm sure that it has, as the nontossing official in a two person game I've got other things to keep my eye on.

I'm initially looking up to watch the tap at the highest point, to chop it in, I'm not watching the division line. Changing this restriction to end a few seconds before the present wording really isn't going to help me here, and may make it harder to enforce.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Start games by giving the ball to the visitors at the division line opposite the table and avoid all this nineteenth century nonsense.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:28pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Every single referee is calling it incorrectly. Because nobody is called a jumper for landing on the other side of the division line.

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Just as nobody is calling multiple fouls...and there is even a very specific case play for that. Hey look, right back to my tag line. Add this play to the list.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Because if it's happened, and I'm sure that it has, as the nontossing official in a two person game I've got other things to keep my eye on.

I'm initially looking up to watch the tap at the highest point, to chop it in, I'm not watching the division line. Changing this restriction to end a few seconds before the present wording really isn't going to help me here, and may make it harder to enforce.
You might not be "watching" it, but if a jumper, when the ball was tossed, sprinted across the division line, you would "see" it. All 3 officials would.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:32pm
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Extra Credit Question ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
1) Jumper A1 touches the ball more than twice before the jump ball ends. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled?

2) Jumper A1 catches the ball before the jump ball ends, with his catch being the first touch by any player. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled?

3) Jumper A1 taps the ball on the way up. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled?

4) Jumper A1 catches the ball before the jump ball ends, his catch being after jumper B1 taps the ball. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled?

5) Neither jumper A1, nor jumper B1, touches the ball after it reaches its highest point and the ball contacts the floor. Nontossing official sounds his whistle so that the jump ball can be tossed again. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled?
How about this:

6) Jumper A1 catches the ball before the jump ball ends. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. How does one start the game especially in reference to how one sets the alternating possession arrow?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jan 05, 2019 at 07:51pm.
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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Good, so at least you agree that there should be a point in time when this restriction ends and that this violation should be enforced as a newly written rule?



So under this new wording, it would be a violation for one jumper to cross the division line after the toss but before tap (which can only legally be tapped after it has reached its highest point)?



...
I never said the restriction should not end at some point. Common sense tells us the restriction should end when the tossed ball is touched, because many times a jumper lands on the other side of division line. Common sense tells us that's how we are already adjudicating this play, as nobody in this forum has ever called that a violation.

One paragraph. Anything past that is you having a conversation with yourself.



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Last edited by Raymond; Sat Jan 05, 2019 at 08:13pm.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:34pm
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Silliness ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
All 3 officials would.
I'm in Connecticut. Who is this "third" official you talk about?

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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 07:48pm
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Of All The Gin Joints In All The Towns (Humphrey Bogart, Casablanca, 1942) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Just as nobody is calling multiple fouls ...
Not sure why, but I would rather be the first official in the universe to call a division line jump ball violation than be the first official in the universe to call a multiple foul.

Nobody would be buying me an adult beverage at the local gin joint after the game if I called either, but if I called the jump ball violation my buddies may still allow me to sit at the bar with them.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 05, 2019, 08:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I'm in Connecticut. Who is this "third" official you talk about?
The OP had 3. In your case, the scorer at the table.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Not sure why, but I would rather be the first official in the universe to call a division line jump ball violation than be the first official in the universe to call a multiple foul.

Nobody would be buying me an adult beverage at the local gin joint after the game if I called either, but if I called the jump ball violation my buddies may still allow me to sit at the bar with them.
So true.

Classic movie. Just watched Maltese Falcon the other day and caught end of The Caine Mutiny yesterday. Bogart no good in CM.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jan 12, 2019, 01:25pm
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Friday's Quiz Answer Sheet ...

Time's up. Put your pencils down.

1) Jumper A1 touches the ball more than twice before the jump ball ends. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled? Keep at 7:58.

2) Jumper A1 catches the ball before the jump ball ends, with his catch being the first touch by any player. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled? Reset to 8:00.

3) Jumper A1 taps the ball on the way up. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled? Reset to 8:00.

4) Jumper A1 catches the ball before the jump ball ends, his catch being after jumper B1 taps the ball. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled? Keep at 7:58.

5) Neither jumper A1, nor jumper B1, touches the ball after it reaches its highest point and the ball contacts the floor. Nontossing official sounds his whistle so that the jump ball can be tossed again. Game clock shows 7:58. How is the game clock handled? Reset to 8:00.

6) Jumper A1 catches the ball before the jump ball ends. Nontossing official calls a violation on jumper A1. How does one start the game especially in reference to how one sets the alternating possession arrow? Team B gets the ball. Arrow points to Team A (reversing an earlier ruling ("lose the ball, lose the arrow") from when the alternating possession arrow was first introduced).
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Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jan 12, 2019 at 01:43pm.
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