Rich's area - Is it time to drop the 3-man officiating crew?

[ilyazhito]

I have, for part of a rec game when my partner was on his way. I had to basically work as a Center official opposite until my partner showed up. No sideline coverage whatsoever, limited angles to see plays. I would not work 1-person in any scholastic game for that reason. After working 3-person for intramurals, scrimmages, and my first 2 varsity games this past week, I really don't want to work 2 person games unless I absolutely must. There are too many plays that a 2-person crew will missed as compared to a 3-person crew.

How can the author of the OP have been an official in Texas, and never worked a 3-person game? Did he not go to camp, officiate playoff games, or have any of the conferences that he was in assign 3 officials? I would be surprised if the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex still only uses 2 officials for varsity games, because there are a lot of schools, a lot of officials, and a lot of money in the Metroplex. If there are any DBOA or Dallas TASO basketball officials, let me know about the current situation, and when 3-person started in your part of Texas.

BTW, I totally agree with SC Official about the "for the kids" phrase used as hypocritical lip service. If you really want to do this for high school kids, make sure the game environment is safe, including providing an adequate crew (3 officials for varsity, 2 for freshman/middle school games).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

How can the author of the OP have been an official in Texas, and never worked a 3-person game?

He quit working in 1997. That, apparently, makes him an expert for all time.


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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I would not work 1-person in any scholastic game for that reason.

Really?

Schedule mix up? Partner in car accident on way to game? Partner twists ankle in first minute?

You would just refund everybody's ticket price, tell the kids to get back on the bus and go home, and turn off the lights when you left the gym?

Really?

Doesn't sound very professorial, and doesn't sound like you've been to any rodeos, or have been around the block at least once.

Here in Connecticut we have statewide written one person mechanics guidelines in place (mostly common sense), seldom used, but they're there because one doesn't officiate very long until one eventually uses them.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Really? Schedule mix up? Partner in car accident on way to game? Partner twists ankle in first minute? You would just refund everybody's ticket price, tell the kids to get back on the bus and go home, and turn off the lights when you left the gym? Really?



Doesn't sound very professorial, and doesn't sound like you've been to any rodeos, or have been around the block at least once.



Here in Connecticut we have statewide written one person mechanics guidelines in place (mostly common sense), seldom used, but they're there because one doesn't officiate very long until one eventually needs them.

We cannot start a game with 1 official in WI.

This is another reason to hire 3 for varsity contests - if one goes down you still have two to finish the contest.


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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

This is another reason to hire 3 for varsity contests - if one goes down you still have two to finish the contest.

And a great reason it is.

We try to overlap officials in freshman, junior varsity, and varsity. Try to get there by the beginning of the second period of the game before yours, and try to stay until at least halftime of the game after yours. It's for both emergency coverage, and for educational (observational) purposes.

It's encouraged, often times adhered to, many times not so much.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Rich

He quit working in 1997. That, apparently, makes him an expert for all time.


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I'd have to assume that UIL and TAPPS authorized 3-person officiating in Texas in 1998 or some time soon thereafter. On any basketball officials' association website in Texas, there is information about 2 and 3 person, including information on 3-person game fees, which means that 3-person is pretty widely used in TX.

Still, just because you were an official before 3-person was introduced does not make you an expert on 3-person. I would not call BillyMac an expert on 3-person, because CT rarely uses 3-person (playoffs and a few rivalry games a year), but I would call JRutledge, Raymond, or Rich experts, because they have consistently worked 3-person on multiple levels.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Really?

Schedule mix up? Partner in car accident on way to game? Partner twists ankle in first minute?

You would just refund everybody's ticket price, tell the kids to get back on the bus and go home, and turn off the lights when you left the gym?

Really?

Doesn't sound very professorial, and doesn't sound like you've been to any rodeos, or have been around the block at least once.

Here in Connecticut we have statewide written one person mechanics guidelines in place (mostly common sense), seldom used, but they're there because one doesn't officiate very long until one eventually uses them.

Billy, I would wait for my partner and/or a replacement to show up. If I have an official for next game watching, I would enlist him/her. If my partner is in traffic, I would delay the game and explain this to both coaches. If my partner is injured and no alternate official is available (no official for a future/prior game/official who is working as a clock operator), I would gather both coaches and explain to them that I cannot continue the game, because I alone would not be able to provide proper floor coverage to ensure the safety of their players. I would not open myself up to a lawsuit for an injury caused by working 1-person mechanics that happens due to a play that I cannot see.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I would not call BillyMac an expert on 3-person ...

Hey, I'm what'cha call a three person expert. I've been to one three person clinic, worked a few three person periods in scrimmages, and actually worked two real three person games, and one was a varsity game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

If my partner is injured and no alternate official is available (no official for a future/prior game/official who is working as a clock operator), I would gather both coaches and explain to them that I cannot continue the game, because I alone would not be able to provide proper floor coverage to ensure the safety of their players. I would not open myself up to a lawsuit for an injury caused by working 1-person mechanics that happens due to a play that I cannot see.

This is a excellent, legal, professional plan for states like Wisconsin, but I find it hard to believe that with hundreds of ticket buying fans in the stands, a paid table crew, cheerleaders, and two teams of players, warming up, one group that may have traveled many miles in a expensive bus, you would simply say goodbye and turn off the lights when you left the gym.

If that's your state's policy, or your association's policy, you wouldn't have any other choice, and I'm fine with that, but would you really make such a decision on your own in a scholastic game at any level, even a middle school game?

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I would not work 1-person in any scholastic game for that reason.

Really?

At the bare minimum (assuming no state or association guidelines) one should contact one's assigner to garner some advice.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You guys that do all three person must say the same thing to yourselves when your may be rarely forced to do two person.

Yep.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

This is a excellent, legal, professional plan for states like Wisconsin, but I find it hard to believe that with hundreds of ticket buying fans in the stands, a paid table crew, cheerleaders, and two teams of players, warming up, one group that may have traveled many miles in a expensive bus, you would simply say goodbye and turn off the lights when you left the gym.



If that's your state's policy, or your association's policy, you wouldn't have any other choice, and I'm fine with that, but would you really make such a decision on your own in a scholastic game at any level, even a middle school game?







Really?

I would support him, yes. If anyone got hurt, they'd sue everyone, wouldn't they?


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[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

There isn't a thing wrong with 2 man. It is perfectly fine. That is until you work 3 man. The next time you work 2 man you realize it is terrible. You know you are missing half the stuff you normally pick up. I don't know how anyone could claim 2 man is better.

You are 100% correct!

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by SC Official

I have no issues with officials that do it "for the kids." To each his own.

My issue with that phrase is that it's often used as lip service by people who couldn't care less about the kids. Or coaches saying that they're "defending my kids" to justify poor behavior.

You are also correct!

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

If anyone got hurt, they'd sue everyone, wouldn't they?

In Wisconsin, and in other states with such limiting guidelines in place, you're absolutely correct. Working a game by oneself in such states would be stupid, foolish, and negligent and would certainly open up one to a high degree of legal liability.

But there are states without such limitations, some (like Connecticut) actually have written one person mechanics guidelines in place, and some even have fee structures in place to accommodate such situations (example, 1.5 x fee) that could certainly mitigate any, but not all, legal liabilities.

I say "but not all" because in our modern litigious society, anybody, anywhere, can file a lawsuit against anybody else, for any reason. And even if one is not negligent and is innocent of any illegal behavior, one still has to hire an attorney, and they aren't inexpensive.

At the bare minimum (assuming no state or association guidelines) one should contact one's assigner to garner some advice before letting the gym door hit one in the ass on one's way out.

Leaving the gym on one's own (assuming no state or association guidelines) with no outside guidance (like contacting an assigner) could really upset a lot of people, coaches, site directors, athletic directors, school principals, and assigners, and in some states leaving with no outside guidance may expose one (and possibly their association) to legal issues regarding contract language.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

I don't think any experienced official can honestly say that working 3 man is not better for everybody vs 2 man.

If you haven't worked it, you really shouldn't have an opinion.

Just my opinion

Some of his points were valid....moving to 3 means you need 50% more people to cover the same number of games or you need the same people go give 50% more of their time.

A lot of people can't give up 50% more time, so you ultimately need more people. Assuming you normally use the "best" officials with 2-person crews, that means the ones you need to add come from the next tier down, adding people that were previously working JV games to now do Varsity games. You have more officials on games that are not ready for those games. You can cover select games with an experienced crew, but not all, may not even most games.

It is certainly better at the top, but the big question is whether the 3-person system, across all games, overcomes the effect of adding a generally less capable official to most crews. When we switched to 3-person, who that was was patently obvious to anyone who had any idea of what was going on on the court. They tended to not know where to go and the call selection was just not the same. We knew that there would be growing pains for the first few years as many had to learn 3-person...most 3-person crews had 1 person with 3-person experience (typically with a college background), 1 that was familiar to some degree, and 1 that had no idea. We hoped that the benefit of the 3-person format would eventually overcome the hurdles. While 3-person is certainly better when you have 3 top-level officials, the jury is still out as to whether it is a net win across the board when you have a limited pool to draw from.