Three peron crew --------calling out your area

[Gmoore]

This may have been talked about before if so sorry about the double post.

My question is in a three-person crew do you call only your area or do you call what you see. I have been involved in both and being a younger official I would just like the normal.

Example- I was center table side ball on elbow on trail side player catches pass takes two steps foreword and shoots a three pointer trail raises his hand for three I blow whistle call travel.

Half time I was told not to call anything outside of my area
that I shouldnÂ’t be looking at that play, it was the trails call. Is it better to "overlook" that call or get it right?

Not saying either is right or wrong, but maybe some of you more seasoned officials can help me out here

Thanks

[tjones1]

I've always told the people I'm working with stay in your area--but get ALL non-basketball stuff i.e. throwing elbows etc. I had an offical (3-whistle) who was the C and I was the new T, call a travel that was right in front of me and it wasn't a travel. I just swallowed my whistle at the time and said something to him at halftime. As far as area, I usually don't call anything out of my area because I always lock myself into that area. There are times however when I've got an angle and if I see something that happens and I feel I need to go get it, I'll go get it strong i.e. taking several steps in when I make the call.

[blindzebra]

In general, it depends on the crew and your pregame. If you don't have players in your primary...C and lead in transition...you can expand to HELP.

You also have secondary areas and secondary whistles.

You can have a look through and see non-basketball contact.

What you described is calling in trail's kitchen, way outside of your primary, on a violation.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by blindzebra
In general, it depends on the crew and your pregame.

Sometimes some guys say when the play is right infront of them to help them out with travel and some guys say stay in your own pond. But most guys say if you see somthing that needs to be gotten then go get it.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Sometimes some guys say when the play is right infront of them to help them out with travel and some guys say stay in your own pond. But most guys say if you see somthing that needs to be gotten then go get it.

Helping out with a travel in front of someone is mentioned pertaining to the Lead in the post not all over the court. Most guys do NOT say if you see something go get it. The mechanics of the 3-person system are what they are for angles and court coverage. This system is not meant to have 6 eyes looking at the ball all over the court. There are situations where deviations will occur but saying go get things make it the norm. Quite simply the posters situation was a clear cut example of ball watching. I hope I don't take too much of a beating for this but I believe in planning/training/pre-gaming by the book knowing that deviations will occur rather than pre-gaming the fact that it is OK to watch my area even though that is what I'm getting paid to do. Various officials will miss various amounts of calls. This is why there is rec, MS, HS, JUCO, DIII, DII and D1 to help sort US out. Of course there are other factors involved.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Snake~eyes

Sometimes some guys say when the play is right infront of them to help them out with travel and some guys say stay in your own pond. But most guys say if you see somthing that needs to be gotten then go get it.

If you have an ant, I do not want that called at all. Let me get that call. If it is an elephant, then I do not have as much problem with you calling those types of calls as much. I just think overall you should trust your partners and let them make calls they see in their area.

Peace

[M&M Guy]

[/B][/QUOTE]

If you have an ant, I do not want that called at all. Let me get that call. If it is an elephant, then I do not have as much problem with you calling those types of calls as much. I just think overall you should trust your partners and let them make calls they see in their area.

Peace [/B][/QUOTE]

I like that analogy - ants and elephants. It's always hard trying to explain to younger officials about staying in your area, but helping out when needed. Heck, sometimes it's hard for me to let something go if I've seen it. But I have to remember to trust my partners and let them live with the little stuff.
Besides, if there's livestock on the court, isn't it a game management issue?

[Ref in PA]

This is a pre-game issue. Usually I want fouls I have missed to be called in my area and only huge, obvious violations. But sometimes I let stuff go depending on the play. This is especially true down low. A slight bump by the defender may have caused a slight shuffle by the offensive player. I chose to pass on both the foul and the violation in order to allow the play to develop. If I have a partner that only sees and calls the violation, and misses the defender's bump, then we have a sticky mess. I pre-game these situations with my partners. It then helps us to trust one another as the game progresses.

You have a primary area, usually with some action going on. I trust my partners to cover that action while I cover my primary. If you are looking outside your area you will miss the screens that are not set, the pushes, the holds, the "chicken wing" elbows that you should be calling. You will miss the shoves and displacements that go on during rebounds. I find I do not have time to look outside of my area - there is too much action going on.

I can't say this enough - trust your partners.

[Dudly]

Happens in 2 man too. I was lead partner was at half court line. Calls a shooting foul that was literally 6 feet in front of me. I checked his angle and he didn't have one. The shot was blocked. Maybe he had an off ball call and just got it wrong. I don't know.
Coach immediately starts in, I could do nothing but ignore the comments and quickly get them set for the shots. I asked him about it at the next opportunity. His answer was not satisfying. Didn't even have a strong whistle or try to sell the call.

On a positive note though, my beer was cold when I got home.

[South GA BBall Ref]

I would have to agree with Ref in PA. The pre-game is where to discuss it. IMO, the only calls that I would "reach" out of my PCA woudl be those where there is a "train wreck" (excessive contact)

[Almost Always Right]

The reason that 3 person works so much better than 2 person is that we have 3 sets of eyes and the have a specified area that they are responsible for, not that 2 person doesn't but there is far less overlap in 3 person. That is the black and white of the issue. There are situations where each official has a secondary responsibility and we all have a chance to come in and get something BIG, thereby saving the crew. i.e. T coming in with a travel in the post, C coming in with a foul when the post spins toward them and away from the L, C getting a block/charge/travel at half court with back court pressure, etc.
This situation, in my opinion, does not sound like one of those times. Especially if the T was tableside and was able to communicate with the bench.
A couple of questions I always ask my partners are; Do you still feel good about that call? and Did we need to have that as a crew? I try not to be negative but I still hope that gets my point across.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by Almost Always Right
The reason that 3 person works so much better than 2 person is that we have 3 sets of eyes and the have a specified area that they are responsible for, not that 2 person doesn't but there is far less overlap in 3 person. That is the black and white of the issue. There are situations where each official has a secondary responsibility and we all have a chance to come in and get something BIG, thereby saving the crew. i.e. T coming in with a travel in the post, C coming in with a foul when the post spins toward them and away from the L, C getting a block/charge/travel at half court with back court pressure, etc.
This situation, in my opinion, does not sound like one of those times. Especially if the T was tableside and was able to communicate with the bench.
A couple of questions I always ask my partners are; Do you still feel good about that call? and Did we need to have that as a crew? I try not to be negative but I still hope that gets my point across.

I like your post.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Gmoore
This may have been talked about before if so sorry about the double post.

My question is in a three-person crew do you call only your area or do you call what you see. I have been involved in both and being a younger official I would just like the normal.

Example- I was center table side ball on elbow on trail side player catches pass takes two steps foreword and shoots a three pointer trail raises his hand for three I blow whistle call travel.

Half time I was told not to call anything outside of my area
that I shouldnÂ’t be looking at that play, it was the trails call. Is it better to "overlook" that call or get it right?

Not saying either is right or wrong, but maybe some of you more seasoned officials can help me out here

Thanks

Furthermore, did the shooter "really" travel? That's not clear from this description.

[Almost Always Right]

Of course you like my reply - You liked it when we did the Moapa Valley vs. Dayton 3A state final in 2003 as well . . .
hehe

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Almost Always Right
Of course you like my reply - You liked it when we did the Moapa Valley vs. Dayton 3A state final in 2003 as well . . .
hehe

What state?

Peace