Coaches Biggest Problem With New Rules ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mregor

I'd reply, Just so we're straight, what other rules would you like me not to enforce tonight?

The three of us (three officials are sent to six period scrimmages, we still work two person and rotate in, $50.00 each for the night) basically stated that we may not be "looking for problems" but if we happened to spot a problem that we would have to enforce. We also stated that we wouldn't remove a player from the game if there was an infraction, that we would allow her to adjust the waistband on the court.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The three of us (three officials are sent to six period scrimmages, we still work two person and rotate in, $50.00 each for the night) basically stated that we may not be "looking for problems" but if we happened to spot a problem that we would have to enforce. We also stated that we wouldn't remove a player from the game if there was an infraction, that we would allow her to adjust the waistband on the court.

You get paid for scrimmage? I don't ever recall being paid for scrimmage. I worked first scrimmage in South Dakota last night and the coach gave us a Starbucks gift card. I thought that was a nice touch.

Scrimmage I wouldn't enforce it but its a scrimmage. I would explain to coaches and player how we were told to enforce it so they could prepare for regular season.

Roger

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mregor

You get paid for scrimmage? I don't ever recall being paid for scrimmage. I worked first scrimmage in South Dakota last night and the coach gave us a Starbucks gift card. I thought that was a nice touch.



Scrimmage I wouldn't enforce it but its a scrimmage. I would explain to coaches and player how we were told to enforce it so they could prepare for regular season.



Roger

In Wisconsin, they're all paid. Usually a game fee.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mregor

You get paid for scrimmage? I don't ever recall being paid for scrimmage. I worked first scrimmage in South Dakota last night and the coach gave us a Starbucks gift card. I thought that was a nice touch.

We started a new scrimmage policy about eight years ago. Previous to the change, we either used to sign up for free scrimmages at our preseason local board meetings, or we would get calls from local coaches with whom we previously had some type of relationship, usually hometown coaches. The scrimmages were "free" but we would often walk away with a twenty dollar bill in our pocket, or get a free T-shirt, or get a grinder, or a couple of slices of pizza. Free scrimmages always had a positive effect on relations between the officials and the coaches, athletic directors, and principals. Under the old system, I would often work a half dozen, or more, scrimmages, choosing to work games either near my home, or near my work. These scrimmages really got me prepared for the upcoming season.

Under our new paid scrimmage policy we are assigned scrimmages, as much as fifty miles away, by our assistant assignment commissioner through Arbiter and get paid $50.00 each, minus the 7% commissioner's fee, for a two hour scrimmage (three officials assigned, two person games, rotate on and off the court between periods, usually six periods, four varsity, two junior varsity).

Now that we get paid, everybody, 325 local board members, wants to get in on the money, so guys that never wanted to work scrimmages in the past, now can't wait to get some cash in their pockets. Since the change, I have never been assigned more than three scrimmages, it's usually only one, or two.

This scrimmage policy change was encouraged by our state interscholastic sports governing body. Several sports (field hockey, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer) were having problems getting free scrimmage officials, so our state association encouraged all sports officials to charge for scrimmages, assigning games in much the same manner as regular season assignments.

Enough free officials showing up for basketball scrimmages was never a problem previous to this policy change. Those of us who wanted to work scrimmages, worked scrimmages, and the problem was never not enough basketball officials working scrimmages, but too many, with four, or five, of us showing up for a two hour scrimmage, only getting to work couple of periods.

Sometimes getting paid isn't always better. There are often unintended consequences.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We started a new scrimmage policy about eight years ago. Previous to the change, we either used to sign up for free scrimmages at our preseason local board meetings, or we would get calls from local coaches with whom we previously had some type of relationship, usually hometown coaches. The scrimmages were "free" but we would often walk away with a twenty dollar bill in our pocket, or get a free T-shirt, or get a grinder, or a couple of slices of pizza. Free scrimmages always had a positive effect on relations between the officials and the coaches, athletic directors, and principals. Under the old system, I would often work a half dozen, or more, scrimmages, choosing to work games either near my home, or near my work. These scrimmages really got me prepared for the upcoming season.

Under our new paid scrimmage policy we are assigned scrimmages, as much as fifty miles away, by our assistant assignment commissioner through Arbiter and get paid $50.00 each, minus the 7% commissioner's fee, for a two hour scrimmage (three officials assigned, two person games, rotate on and off the court between periods, usually six periods, four varsity, two junior varsity).

Now that we get paid, everybody, 325 local board members, wants to get in on the money, so guys that never wanted to work scrimmages in the past, now can't wait to get some cash in their pockets. Since the change, I have never been assigned more than three scrimmages, it's usually only one, or two.

This scrimmage policy change was encouraged by our state interscholastic sports governing body. Several sports (field hockey, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer) were having problems getting free scrimmage officials, so our state association encouraged all sports officials to charge for scrimmages, assigning games in much the same manner as regular season assignments.

Enough free officials showing up for basketball scrimmages was never a problem previous to this policy change. Those of us who wanted to work scrimmages, worked scrimmages, and the problem was never not enough basketball officials working scrimmages, but too many, with four, or five, of us showing up for a two hour scrimmage, only getting to work couple of periods.

Sometimes getting paid isn't always better. There are often unintended consequences.

You guys were and continue to be fools. My time is too valuable to work games for free or even less than a full game fee. If there are multiple levels/games then the pay needs to be multiple game fees.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnny d

You guys were and continue to be fools.

A good result of the change to board assigned scrimmages for a fee is that I'm no longer the "go to guy" to recruit and organize local officials for my hometown high school boys and girls scrimmages.

As a teacher in the school system, and as a basketball coach in school system, and as an official living in town, with children playing interscholastic sports in the school system, I was always asked to get officials for both the boys and girls programs at the high school. Most of this took place before the common use of email.

I never had a problem being asked to organize the officials, or getting officials to volunteer for the games (we all viewed it as providing a service to our home town high school, and an opportunity to get ready for the season, without having to travel very far, it was never viewed as a burden), as long as things went smoothly. By smoothly, I mean the two head coaches, or the athletic director, call me with their "home" scrimmage dates, I make few phone calls, fill the slots, and I'm done.

But it never seemed to go smoothly. Invariably, scrimmages based on nothing more than a handshake between coaches, would get canceled, or postponed, and it would be up to me to call the scheduled volunteers and to reschedule them, or add new officials if the original officials weren't available for the rescheduled dates. Today, with modern email, it wouldn't be as big a problem, but back then I spent a lot of time on the phone.

That gave me a very small taste of what is was like to be an assigner, and it was a very bitter taste.

God bless all you Forum members who are assigners. Whether you do it for big bucks, little bucks, or no bucks (assign your local recreation games to give you first crack at the games), you don't get paid enough as far as I'm concerned.

I wake up on a beautiful snowy morning and say, "I'm lucky to live here in New England", while you assigners wake up on such a morning and say, "Oh shit".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnny d

You guys were and continue to be fools.

I see your point johnny d, but fool is a pretty strong word.

Free scrimmages always had a positive effect on relations between the officials and the coaches, athletic directors, and principals.

We all viewed it as volunteering a service to the high schools in our area, in many cases, in our hometowns, and an opportunity to get ready for the season, without having to travel very far (if it's too far, don't volunteer), it was never viewed as a burden.

You want to work free scrimmages, you work free scrimmages. You don't want to work free scrimmages, you don't volunteer for them, nobody's holding a gun to your head.

There was never a problem with getting officials to volunteer for these free scrimmages. I would volunteer for three or four, all close to home or work, all at convenient times for me. When the season started, I was fully prepared after a nine month layoff.

Since the change to assigned paid scrimmages, I often get fewer than I need to prepare myself for the season. A few years ago, I only had one assigned paid scrimmage, a small school girls scrimmage, and then had boys regular season opener between two competitive teams that I wasn't fully prepared for.

Like I said, it was never seen as a burden, it was more of an opportunity. The players needed to get ready, we needed to get ready.

I would never work a full season for free, now that would be quite foolish, but a few games, in a relaxed atmosphere, close to home, at convenient times, with grateful coaches, athletic directors, and principals, no problem, as long as it's strictly voluntary on my part.

I volunteer to work Special Olympics Unified Games every year for free, does that also make me a fool?

[bucky]

Generally speaking, I have never worked a scrimmage where officials were not paid. I indeed have volunteered my services and I never accept money if officiating a scrimmage featuring one of my kids playing.

I may be a fool for other reasons but it seems difficult to label a volunteer a fool. As a parent of players, instead of working concessions or providing other parental services, I offer to officiate scrimmages without pay.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

As a parent of players, instead of working concessions or providing other parental services, I offer to officiate scrimmages without pay.

Well stated, very specific situation, but nevertheless, well stated. Thank you.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by bucky

Generally speaking, I have never worked a scrimmage where officials were not paid. I indeed have volunteered my services and I never accept money if officiating a scrimmage featuring one of my kids playing.

I may be a fool for other reasons but it seems difficult to label a volunteer a fool. As a parent of players, instead of working concessions or providing other parental services, I offer to officiate scrimmages without pay.

Well said. I've volunteered for many scrimmages and lower level games.

I like to help the coaches/kids/schools/whatever out.

PLUS, it's a chance to get better and improve. I guess my time isn't too valuable for that.

[SC Official]

All scrimmages are unpaid in SC. In my district they are assigned, however generally we send 5-6 officials to a school so they can rotate in and not work the whole thing. We have to work a minimum of two. Generally schools do 5-7 10:00 running clock periods.

I'm completely opposed to free labor, however many officials (and the schools, of course) don't agree with me.

That being said, I put up with zero BS in scrimmages and have threatened to leave when coaches/players are acting up. Generally everyone behaves themselves in these settings. Only one time have I actually left, when a coach notorious for being a jackass just couldn't control himself. Of course I got the expected, politically correct "you owe it to the schools to be here" spiel, and I couldn't care less.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by SC Official

That being said, I put up with zero BS in scrimmages ...

Thirty-eight years and only one problem, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Notorious Catholic school hothead coach from a different little corner of Connecticut travels for an hour across the state into our local area to scrimmage my local hometown high school, also coached by a notorious hothead.

My hometown hothead knows better than to mess with Bill (every year I was in charge of recruiting "free" officials for his scrimmages), but the visitor hothead doesn't know me from Adam, so he starts whining and yelling to the point where, had it been real game, he would have been charged with a technical foul (from a guy, namely me, who has some pretty thick skin).

I almost pulled the pin on the technical, but then realized that it was only a scrimmage, the score was reset at the beginning of each period, so why bother. I stopped the game and calmly explained to him the futility of a technical foul in a scrimmage and then stated calmly that if he continued with his shenanigans, that despite the futility, I would still charge a technical foul, charge another one if needed, eject him if a second one was charged, only allow his assistant coach to coach, and if he didn't comply, I as the referee, would declare a forfeit, the scrimmage would be over, we would be walking out the door, forcing both teams to continue the scrimmage with no officials.

I'm still not sure if it was a bluff on my part, or not, but it worked.

Enjoy The Marvelettes:

https://youtu.be/7LXQtI4a6ew

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Thirty-eight years and only one problem, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Notorious Catholic school hothead coach from a different little corner of Connecticut travels for an hour across the state into our local area to scrimmage my local hometown high school, also coached by a notorious hothead.

My hometown hothead knows better than to mess with Bill (every year I was in charge of recruiting "free" officials for his scrimmages), but the visitor hothead doesn't know me from Adam, so he starts whining and yelling to the point where, had it been real game, he would have been charged with a technical foul (from a guy, namely me, who has some pretty thick skin).

I almost pulled the pin on the technical, but then realized that it was only a scrimmage, the score was reset at the beginning of each period, so why bother. I stopped the game and calmly explained to him the futility of a technical foul in a scrimmage and then stated calmly that if he continued with his shenanigans, that despite the futility, I would still charge a technical foul, charge another one if needed, eject him if a second one was charged, only allow his assistant coach to coach, and if he didn't comply, I as the referee, would declare a forfeit, the scrimmage would be over, we would be walking out the door, forcing both teams to continue the scrimmage with no officials.

I'm still not sure if it was a bluff on my part, or not, but it worked.

Enjoy The Marvelettes:

https://youtu.be/7LXQtI4a6ew

One time when the visiting coach for a scrimmage of mine was acting up (he was new and wasn't familiar with any of the officials), I told the home coach that we were going to leave if he didn't chill. The home coach reasoned with him and he calmed down.

Some people will say "you should treat it like it's a real game." Well when they start playing normal game rules in scrimmages and pay us like it's a real game, then maybe I'll do that. Otherwise it's a no-win situation to stick around and get chewed on, and giving a technical foul won't make things better; they won't comply since "it's just a scrimmage." Put the ball on the table and go home.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

You guys were and continue to be fools. My time is too valuable to work games for free or even less than a full game fee. If there are multiple levels/games then the pay needs to be multiple game fees.

Or you could just want to get better and any fee is a bonus.

But your time is too valuable to get better I suppose?

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by SD Referee

Or you could just want to get better and any fee is a bonus.

But your time is too valuable to get better I suppose?

Ah, another holier-than-thou remark.