Coaches Biggest Problem With New Rules ...

[BillyMac]

Worked my first scrimmage of the season tonight. Girls. We came out of the locker room and walked across the court to greet the coaches, the very first word out of one coach's mouth was, "So you guys really aren't going to enforce that no waistband rolling rule, are you? My girls are all freaking out about it".

The importance of this issue to coaches and players is blowing my mind.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Worked my first scrimmage of the season tonight. Girls. We came out of the locker room and walked across the court to greet the coaches, the very first word out of one coach's mouth was, "So you guys really aren't going to enforce that no waistband rolling rule, are you? My girls are all freaking out about it".

I'd reply, Just so we're straight, what other rules would you like me not to enforce tonight?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mregor

I'd reply, Just so we're straight, what other rules would you like me not to enforce tonight?

The three of us (three officials are sent to six period scrimmages, we still work two person and rotate in, $50.00 each for the night) basically stated that we may not be "looking for problems" but if we happened to spot a problem that we would have to enforce. We also stated that we wouldn't remove a player from the game if there was an infraction, that we would allow her to adjust the waistband on the court.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The three of us (three officials are sent to six period scrimmages, we still work two person and rotate in, $50.00 each for the night) basically stated that we may not be "looking for problems" but if we happened to spot a problem that we would have to enforce. We also stated that we wouldn't remove a player from the game if there was an infraction, that we would allow her to adjust the waistband on the court.

You get paid for scrimmage? I don't ever recall being paid for scrimmage. I worked first scrimmage in South Dakota last night and the coach gave us a Starbucks gift card. I thought that was a nice touch.

Scrimmage I wouldn't enforce it but its a scrimmage. I would explain to coaches and player how we were told to enforce it so they could prepare for regular season.

Roger

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Mregor

You get paid for scrimmage? I don't ever recall being paid for scrimmage. I worked first scrimmage in South Dakota last night and the coach gave us a Starbucks gift card. I thought that was a nice touch.



Scrimmage I wouldn't enforce it but its a scrimmage. I would explain to coaches and player how we were told to enforce it so they could prepare for regular season.



Roger

In Wisconsin, they're all paid. Usually a game fee.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mregor

You get paid for scrimmage? I don't ever recall being paid for scrimmage. I worked first scrimmage in South Dakota last night and the coach gave us a Starbucks gift card. I thought that was a nice touch.

We started a new scrimmage policy about eight years ago. Previous to the change, we either used to sign up for free scrimmages at our preseason local board meetings, or we would get calls from local coaches with whom we previously had some type of relationship, usually hometown coaches. The scrimmages were "free" but we would often walk away with a twenty dollar bill in our pocket, or get a free T-shirt, or get a grinder, or a couple of slices of pizza. Free scrimmages always had a positive effect on relations between the officials and the coaches, athletic directors, and principals. Under the old system, I would often work a half dozen, or more, scrimmages, choosing to work games either near my home, or near my work. These scrimmages really got me prepared for the upcoming season.

Under our new paid scrimmage policy we are assigned scrimmages, as much as fifty miles away, by our assistant assignment commissioner through Arbiter and get paid $50.00 each, minus the 7% commissioner's fee, for a two hour scrimmage (three officials assigned, two person games, rotate on and off the court between periods, usually six periods, four varsity, two junior varsity).

Now that we get paid, everybody, 325 local board members, wants to get in on the money, so guys that never wanted to work scrimmages in the past, now can't wait to get some cash in their pockets. Since the change, I have never been assigned more than three scrimmages, it's usually only one, or two.

This scrimmage policy change was encouraged by our state interscholastic sports governing body. Several sports (field hockey, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer) were having problems getting free scrimmage officials, so our state association encouraged all sports officials to charge for scrimmages, assigning games in much the same manner as regular season assignments.

Enough free officials showing up for basketball scrimmages was never a problem previous to this policy change. Those of us who wanted to work scrimmages, worked scrimmages, and the problem was never not enough basketball officials working scrimmages, but too many, with four, or five, of us showing up for a two hour scrimmage, only getting to work couple of periods.

Sometimes getting paid isn't always better. There are often unintended consequences.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

We started a new scrimmage policy about eight years ago. Previous to the change, we either used to sign up for free scrimmages at our preseason local board meetings, or we would get calls from local coaches with whom we previously had some type of relationship, usually hometown coaches. The scrimmages were "free" but we would often walk away with a twenty dollar bill in our pocket, or get a free T-shirt, or get a grinder, or a couple of slices of pizza. Free scrimmages always had a positive effect on relations between the officials and the coaches, athletic directors, and principals. Under the old system, I would often work a half dozen, or more, scrimmages, choosing to work games either near my home, or near my work. These scrimmages really got me prepared for the upcoming season.

Under our new paid scrimmage policy we are assigned scrimmages, as much as fifty miles away, by our assistant assignment commissioner through Arbiter and get paid $50.00 each, minus the 7% commissioner's fee, for a two hour scrimmage (three officials assigned, two person games, rotate on and off the court between periods, usually six periods, four varsity, two junior varsity).

Now that we get paid, everybody, 325 local board members, wants to get in on the money, so guys that never wanted to work scrimmages in the past, now can't wait to get some cash in their pockets. Since the change, I have never been assigned more than three scrimmages, it's usually only one, or two.

This scrimmage policy change was encouraged by our state interscholastic sports governing body. Several sports (field hockey, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer) were having problems getting free scrimmage officials, so our state association encouraged all sports officials to charge for scrimmages, assigning games in much the same manner as regular season assignments.

Enough free officials showing up for basketball scrimmages was never a problem previous to this policy change. Those of us who wanted to work scrimmages, worked scrimmages, and the problem was never not enough basketball officials working scrimmages, but too many, with four, or five, of us showing up for a two hour scrimmage, only getting to work couple of periods.

Sometimes getting paid isn't always better. There are often unintended consequences.

You guys were and continue to be fools. My time is too valuable to work games for free or even less than a full game fee. If there are multiple levels/games then the pay needs to be multiple game fees.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnny d

You guys were and continue to be fools.

A good result of the change to board assigned scrimmages for a fee is that I'm no longer the "go to guy" to recruit and organize local officials for my hometown high school boys and girls scrimmages.

As a teacher in the school system, and as a basketball coach in school system, and as an official living in town, with children playing interscholastic sports in the school system, I was always asked to get officials for both the boys and girls programs at the high school. Most of this took place before the common use of email.

I never had a problem being asked to organize the officials, or getting officials to volunteer for the games (we all viewed it as providing a service to our home town high school, and an opportunity to get ready for the season, without having to travel very far, it was never viewed as a burden), as long as things went smoothly. By smoothly, I mean the two head coaches, or the athletic director, call me with their "home" scrimmage dates, I make few phone calls, fill the slots, and I'm done.

But it never seemed to go smoothly. Invariably, scrimmages based on nothing more than a handshake between coaches, would get canceled, or postponed, and it would be up to me to call the scheduled volunteers and to reschedule them, or add new officials if the original officials weren't available for the rescheduled dates. Today, with modern email, it wouldn't be as big a problem, but back then I spent a lot of time on the phone.

That gave me a very small taste of what is was like to be an assigner, and it was a very bitter taste.

God bless all you Forum members who are assigners. Whether you do it for big bucks, little bucks, or no bucks (assign your local recreation games to give you first crack at the games), you don't get paid enough as far as I'm concerned.

I wake up on a beautiful snowy morning and say, "I'm lucky to live here in New England", while you assigners wake up on such a morning and say, "Oh shit".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by johnny d

You guys were and continue to be fools.

I see your point johnny d, but fool is a pretty strong word.

Free scrimmages always had a positive effect on relations between the officials and the coaches, athletic directors, and principals.

We all viewed it as volunteering a service to the high schools in our area, in many cases, in our hometowns, and an opportunity to get ready for the season, without having to travel very far (if it's too far, don't volunteer), it was never viewed as a burden.

You want to work free scrimmages, you work free scrimmages. You don't want to work free scrimmages, you don't volunteer for them, nobody's holding a gun to your head.

There was never a problem with getting officials to volunteer for these free scrimmages. I would volunteer for three or four, all close to home or work, all at convenient times for me. When the season started, I was fully prepared after a nine month layoff.

Since the change to assigned paid scrimmages, I often get fewer than I need to prepare myself for the season. A few years ago, I only had one assigned paid scrimmage, a small school girls scrimmage, and then had boys regular season opener between two competitive teams that I wasn't fully prepared for.

Like I said, it was never seen as a burden, it was more of an opportunity. The players needed to get ready, we needed to get ready.

I would never work a full season for free, now that would be quite foolish, but a few games, in a relaxed atmosphere, close to home, at convenient times, with grateful coaches, athletic directors, and principals, no problem, as long as it's strictly voluntary on my part.

I volunteer to work Special Olympics Unified Games every year for free, does that also make me a fool?

[SC Official]

All scrimmages are unpaid in SC. In my district they are assigned, however generally we send 5-6 officials to a school so they can rotate in and not work the whole thing. We have to work a minimum of two. Generally schools do 5-7 10:00 running clock periods.

I'm completely opposed to free labor, however many officials (and the schools, of course) don't agree with me.

That being said, I put up with zero BS in scrimmages and have threatened to leave when coaches/players are acting up. Generally everyone behaves themselves in these settings. Only one time have I actually left, when a coach notorious for being a jackass just couldn't control himself. Of course I got the expected, politically correct "you owe it to the schools to be here" spiel, and I couldn't care less.

[SD Referee]

Originally Posted by johnny d

You guys were and continue to be fools. My time is too valuable to work games for free or even less than a full game fee. If there are multiple levels/games then the pay needs to be multiple game fees.

Or you could just want to get better and any fee is a bonus.

But your time is too valuable to get better I suppose?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mregor

Scrimmage I wouldn't enforce it but its a scrimmage.

Fashion issues (except for safety issues) are never enforced in scrimmages here. I don't know if it's policy, or tradition, but players never wear uniforms in Connecticut scrimmages. Players often wear T-shirts, or reversible scrimmage vests, and are dressed as they would for practice. I had a scrimmage a few nights ago where every foul that I reported, for both teams, was charged to number zero, because nobody had a number on their T-shirt.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Mregor

I'd reply, Just so we're straight, what other rules would you like me not to enforce tonight?

Although a cute response, the coach could simply, straight faced, reply that that is the only one. Additionally, the coach could easily respond that there are several rules not enforced so what is wrong with adding one to the list, especially since it is a rule that has nothing to do with playing the game. I digress.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The three of us (three officials are sent to six period scrimmages, we still work two person and rotate in, $50.00 each for the night) basically stated that we may not be "looking for problems" but if we happened to spot a problem that we would have to enforce. We also stated that we wouldn't remove a player from the game if there was an infraction, that we would allow her to adjust the waistband on the court.

A nice idea however many times, a coach (usually opposing), brings something to your attention. Now, the crew looks a little silly for appearing to have not seen something before the game started. Also, then the other coach tries to spot other infractions against the opponent. Lastly, either coach may quip later in the game that you "enforce that (rule X) but not (rule Y)?" Anyway, there is no perfect way to do it and your way is a good start. Just saying that it can possibly lead to other issues.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Worked my first scrimmage of the season tonight. Girls. We came out of the locker room and walked across the court to greet the coaches, the very first word out of one coach's mouth was, "So you guys really aren't going to enforce that no waistband rolling rule, are you? My girls are all freaking out about it".

The importance of this issue to coaches and players is blowing my mind.

In our first game, one team had 10 players wearing rolled waistbands. The R talked to the coach during warm ups and told all the players. It was also told to the captains. The 5 starters came onto the court with rolled waistbands. The R was irked and addressed it, all while attention was brought on us, especially him. Later in the game, several players from the other team had the rolled waistbands. Again, the R addressed it. The coaches supported him/us but they were still miffed that it was an issue, causing such delays during the game. The game was a blowout. After the game, the home coach entered our locker room and we indicated that we were not being jerks about it, that we did not like to deal with it, and that it was not fun for us. However, we explained the league commissioners/assignors and state association have made it a POE and that recent communications were sent to enforce it. He was very understanding. Just stinks that it is an issue.

I attended a game with one team (winning team) having A1 with multi-colored sleeve, A2 wearing a black headband, and A3 wearing a white headband. There was a veteran crew and they allowed it throughout the game. The opposing coach, down by 35 entering the 4th quarter, tried to sub in a deep-bench player wearing a white undershirt beneath is dark jersey. Probably only time he will play the whole season. One official beckoned him on and the other, seeing the undershirt, sent him back. The player went to the locker room and removed the undershirt. Kids enters the game late and gets minimal playing time. Almost seemed like a travesty to me to witness.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

A nice idea however many times, a coach (usually opposing), brings something to your attention. Now, the crew looks a little silly for appearing to have not seen something before the game started.

I'm pretty strict regarding fashion issues. That being said, regarding the rolled waistbands, I'm not going to go looking for trouble, if a player has a tucked in jersey bloused out at the waist, I'm not going to ask the player to unblouse the jersey so that I can check for rolled waistbands.

However, if the rolled waistband is obvious, and out in the open for everyone to see, including me, I will enforce the interpretation.

I don't see myself removing a player from the game if there is a rolled waistband infraction, I would allow said player to adjust the waistband on the court.

Now, all that may change after I get a few games under my black belt, or the Grand Poobahs come up with some stronger, or weaker, guidelines.

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Worked my first scrimmage of the season tonight. Girls. We came out of the locker room and walked across the court to greet the coaches, the very first word out of one coach's mouth was, "So you guys really aren't going to enforce that no waistband rolling rule, are you? My girls are all freaking out about it".

The importance of this issue to coaches and players is blowing my mind.

Has anything been brought up about rolling bottom of shorts? I have not seen a ton of this but a group of officials was asking if this has been addressed.