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Old Mon Nov 12, 2018, 01:21pm
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Bang Bang (My Baby Shot Me Down) (Cher, 1966) ...

For the good of the cause, here are situations similar to what's being discussed in this thread:

The shooter can retrieve his or her own airball, if the official considers it to be a shot attempt. The release ends team control. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point.

When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball.

If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball, chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation.

If, in a similar situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot, the release ends team control. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point.

When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

These are often bang bang plays that need to be ruled correctly. Be ready. They do happen.

Note: I'm not adding the NFHS 2000-2001 Basketball Interpretations Supplement #1 Situation #1 to my list until the NFHS comes down from Mount Sinai with it engraved on a stone tablet.

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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Nov 12, 2018 at 03:04pm.
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Old Tue Nov 13, 2018, 07:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball.
This came up at our association meeting last night and the instructor posed the question of when this becomes a held ball. He contended that it was when the upward momentum of the shooter has been stopped by the opponents hand on the ball. What is the consensus here? Does the defender have to have his hand on the ball until the shooter returns to the floor? Until his upward momentum stops?
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Old Tue Nov 13, 2018, 09:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguru View Post
This came up at our association meeting last night and the instructor posed the question of when this becomes a held ball. He contended that it was when the upward momentum of the shooter has been stopped by the opponents hand on the ball. What is the consensus here? Does the defender have to have his hand on the ball until the shooter returns to the floor? Until his upward momentum stops?
I think "until returns to the floor" used to be an NCAAM rule -- don't know if ti still is.

For NFHS and NCAAW, the "upward momentum" seems like a good guideline -- basically, any contact that affects the shooter AND doesn't cause the ball to come immediately loose is, form a practical standpoint, a held ball.
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Old Tue Nov 13, 2018, 10:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguru View Post
This came up at our association meeting last night and the instructor posed the question of when this becomes a held ball. He contended that it was when the upward momentum of the shooter has been stopped by the opponents hand on the ball. What is the consensus here? Does the defender have to have his hand on the ball until the shooter returns to the floor? Until his upward momentum stops?
Simply look at definition for held ball. It tells you and no, there neither nothing in there about upward momentum nor returning to the floor.
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Old Wed Nov 14, 2018, 02:19am
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You Can Look It Up ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Simply look at definition for held ball. It tells you and no, there neither nothing in there about upward momentum nor returning to the floor.
NFHS 4-25: A held ball occurs when:
ART. 1 Opponents have their hands so firmly on the ball that control cannot
be obtained without undue roughness.
ART. 2 An opponent places his/her hand(s) on the ball and prevents an
airborne player from throwing the ball or releasing it on a try.
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Old Wed Nov 14, 2018, 07:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Simply look at definition for held ball. It tells you and no, there neither nothing in there about upward momentum nor returning to the floor.
No there isn't, but one needs to establish some criteria for what is enough to prevent a player from releasing the ball on the try vs. a touch of the ball that the shooter still has the ability to release.
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Old Wed Nov 14, 2018, 08:43am
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Big Bucks ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguru View Post
... one needs to establish some criteria for what is enough to prevent a player from releasing the ball on the try vs. a touch of the ball that the shooter still has the ability to release.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked, is unable to release the ball, and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball.

If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, the airborne shooter maintains control of the ball, chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation.
Paintguru: I see your point, but as is often stated here on the Forum, sometimes we just have to ref the game, that's why we get the big bucks.
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"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

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Old Wed Nov 14, 2018, 01:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintguru View Post
No there isn't, but one needs to establish some criteria for what is enough to prevent a player from releasing the ball on the try vs. a touch of the ball that the shooter still has the ability to release.
Guess I am missing something then. Use the criteria of the ball in relation to the hand(s) (as far as article 2). I just basically use that, not any other part of the body, momentum, off the floor, etc. NBD.
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Old Wed Nov 14, 2018, 09:28pm
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Below is link to game. Poor quality. Fast forward to the 31:00 mark. Play occurs at about 1:40 in the first half.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LeSdhRTcJc
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Old Wed Nov 14, 2018, 10:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Guess I am missing something then. Use the criteria of the ball in relation to the hand(s) (as far as article 2). I just basically use that, not any other part of the body, momentum, off the floor, etc. NBD.
You better use that one, since it is required by the rule.
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Old Thu Nov 15, 2018, 12:00am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
You better use that one, since it is required by the rule.
Indeed it will. So, there could never be a held ball as a result of a prevented shot from a shooter on the floor. Wonder why they put that in there, especially when the game originated with set shots. Must be historical aspect...Mr. DeNucci? (inner BillyMac coming out of me, sorry)
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