The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 01:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 885
A Rat

I've held my tongue as long as I can. I'd like the opinions of fellow members here.

In March of last season, we elected officers for this season. The President for the 2017-18 season lost. He did not take losing well. ( BTW, He lost 67% to 33% it wasn't close) He broke many of our by laws by going to the area schools and soliciting games for a new officials association that he planned to form. But he hadn't resigned from our board UNTIL the schools had committed to giving him games.

Here's my question, 1st of all, I believe we should be a brotherhood, we should support and raise one another up. How would you handle this situation? Some of our members want to work both boards. ( BTW, we have about 2500 assignments and his board took about 100 )

If one of our members works for his board ( at this point we know of 2) Should there be a penalty? What type of penalty?

Does this happen in other areas? We have a contract with the area schools and conference, we were to be the EXCLUSIVE provider of officiating services for basketball. They interpret the contract differently ( NOW) We serve about 13 high schools, 3 of them have given us all the conference games, not the non conference games, 1 school gave the other board ALL their schedule ( 15 games ) because he offered to work 2 person instead of 3 person, the remainder of schools have given us their entire schedule.

I'd like to stay positive, but this guy.....sore loser. Rat.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 02:03pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,439
A Rat

Penalizing independent contractors? Interesting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
I've held my tongue as long as I can. I'd like the opinions of fellow members here.



In March of last season, we elected officers for this season. The President for the 2017-18 season lost. He did not take losing well. ( BTW, He lost 67% to 33% it wasn't close) He broke many of our by laws by going to the area schools and soliciting games for a new officials association that he planned to form. But he hadn't resigned from our board UNTIL the schools had committed to giving him games.



Here's my question, 1st of all, I believe we should be a brotherhood, we should support and raise one another up. How would you handle this situation? Some of our members want to work both boards. ( BTW, we have about 2500 assignments and his board took about 100 )



If one of our members works for his board ( at this point we know of 2) Should there be a penalty? What type of penalty?



Does this happen in other areas? We have a contract with the area schools and conference, we were to be the EXCLUSIVE provider of officiating services for basketball. They interpret the contract differently ( NOW) We serve about 13 high schools, 3 of them have given us all the conference games, not the non conference games, 1 school gave the other board ALL their schedule ( 15 games ) because he offered to work 2 person instead of 3 person, the remainder of schools have given us their entire schedule.



I'd like to stay positive, but this guy.....sore loser. Rat.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 02:30pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 885
Just looking for other people's thoughts.

How would you feel Rich if a former member left and became a competitor because he lost an election?
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 02:31pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
Just looking for other people's thoughts.



How would you feel Rich if a former member left and became a competitor because he lost an election?


Has nothing to do with feelings. Need to show those schools you provide a better product and compete.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 03:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 885
I agree. But feelings do come into play. I go back to officiating shoild be a brotherhood. We should support one another, not split because we lost an election.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 03:46pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,657
Build A Better Mousetrap ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
But feelings do come into play.
I agree with Rich. Feelings and emotions should not be completely ignored, but they should not come into play regarding moving on from this ugly situation.

Show schools you provide a better product and compete. Recruit more schools. Offer to work more scrimmages for a lower fee (if any). Recruit more officials. Improve your training program. Improve your evaluation system. Keeps business to a minimum and continuing education to a maximum when you have meetings.

Turn lemons into ... Never mind. I don't think that you're in the mood for clichés.
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 04:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 16,824
THis is one of the problems when "associations" are also "assigners" and there's some sort of exclusive relationship with the officials.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 04:15pm
Rich's Avatar
Get away from me, Steve.
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 15,439
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
THis is one of the problems when "associations" are also "assigners" and there's some sort of exclusive relationship with the officials.


I've always found this to be a huge conflict of interest that always ends up being restraint of trade in some way.

Having one person or group dictate whether I can work and what I work is a terrible arrangement, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 04:21pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
I've held my tongue as long as I can. I'd like the opinions of fellow members here.

In March of last season, we elected officers for this season. The President for the 2017-18 season lost. He did not take losing well. ( BTW, He lost 67% to 33% it wasn't close) He broke many of our by laws by going to the area schools and soliciting games for a new officials association that he planned to form. But he hadn't resigned from our board UNTIL the schools had committed to giving him games.

Here's my question, 1st of all, I believe we should be a brotherhood, we should support and raise one another up. How would you handle this situation? Some of our members want to work both boards. ( BTW, we have about 2500 assignments and his board took about 100 )

If one of our members works for his board ( at this point we know of 2) Should there be a penalty? What type of penalty?

Does this happen in other areas? We have a contract with the area schools and conference, we were to be the EXCLUSIVE provider of officiating services for basketball. They interpret the contract differently ( NOW) We serve about 13 high schools, 3 of them have given us all the conference games, not the non conference games, 1 school gave the other board ALL their schedule ( 15 games ) because he offered to work 2 person instead of 3 person, the remainder of schools have given us their entire schedule.

I'd like to stay positive, but this guy.....sore loser. Rat.

Terrapins Fan:

If I read your comment correctly, I assume that you are looking for a rat exterminator. Since I am originally from Youngstown, Ohio, , , I am sure that I can solve your rat problem, .

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 05:17pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 1,225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Penalizing independent contractors? Interesting.
Certainly wouldn’t be the first time, as you know.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 06:20pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 16,657
Exterminator ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Since I am originally from Youngstown, Ohio, I am sure that I can solve your rat problem ...
Wait a minute. Did you have access to Whitey Bulger when he was in prison?
__________________
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 07:06pm
Ok is the new good
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan View Post
I've held my tongue as long as I can. I'd like the opinions of fellow members here.

In March of last season, we elected officers for this season. The President for the 2017-18 season lost. He did not take losing well. ( BTW, He lost 67% to 33% it wasn't close) He broke many of our by laws by going to the area schools and soliciting games for a new officials association that he planned to form. But he hadn't resigned from our board UNTIL the schools had committed to giving him games.

Here's my question, 1st of all, I believe we should be a brotherhood, we should support and raise one another up. How would you handle this situation? Some of our members want to work both boards. ( BTW, we have about 2500 assignments and his board took about 100 )

If one of our members works for his board ( at this point we know of 2) Should there be a penalty? What type of penalty?

Does this happen in other areas? We have a contract with the area schools and conference, we were to be the EXCLUSIVE provider of officiating services for basketball. They interpret the contract differently ( NOW) We serve about 13 high schools, 3 of them have given us all the conference games, not the non conference games, 1 school gave the other board ALL their schedule ( 15 games ) because he offered to work 2 person instead of 3 person, the remainder of schools have given us their entire schedule.

I'd like to stay positive, but this guy.....sore loser. Rat.
Not the first time this situation has occurred. People get hurt feelings and they take action. If the schools are satisfied with the service your board provides why would they switch? Has anyone explained the circumstances to the schools that switched? Independent Contractors can work when and for who they want.

From the facts you present, I would agree the guy is the skunk at the picnic but not sure what course of action your association would like to pursue!
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 07:51pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Maryland
Posts: 885
We cover 7 counties. 2 school in the county, including the one he graduated from, gave him games. 2 school in another county gave him games. 1 because he offered a lower rate using 2 person mechanics instead of 3 person.

Last edited by Terrapins Fan; Sat Nov 03, 2018 at 07:54pm.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 03, 2018, 10:12pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,482
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Wait a minute. Did you have access to Whitey Bulger when he was in prison?

Stand up guys keep their mouths shut.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sun Nov 04, 2018, 08:38am
Official & Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,359
For starters...I think you have him labeled incorrectly. My impression is that he’s more of a WEASEL than rat (at least compared to what I perceive as the definition of a rat).

Second, as much as it sucks, the guy has a right to do what he did. I’ve heard of and experienced similar attempt in the past. Always by a jilted or disgruntled association member who has enough of a history, juice, and experience to try to start their own gig. My advice is to let it run it’s course. He may have a little success early from loyal friends or acquaintances. You can’t expect everyone in your association to blackball him or his association...there are bound to be a few members who are loyal to him as well. In the end, the principle of overwhelming force will prevail...you have superior numbers and an established track record. He has neither. He’ll last a season or two.
__________________
Calling it both ways...since 1999
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:42pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1