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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 09:55am
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Guys In Massachusetts Are Going To Love This ...

Not basketball, but most of us are going to thank our lucky stars that we don't work in Massachusetts and have to observe handshake lines.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...rawl/38026291/
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Oct 03, 2018 at 10:23am.
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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 10:32am
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It is Pop Warner, not sure the officials would have been completely off the field anyway.

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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 11:45am
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Why are MIAA officials required to observe the handshake line? I know about the score being approved when officials leave the court, but do schools not have enough police or security to ensure no disorderly conduct by the teams or spectators?

Officials were probably just leaving the field for this game when this shitstorm broke out, so nothing they could have done to prevent the fight. It is unfortunate that youth sports events bring out the worst behavior in adults.

Last edited by ilyazhito; Wed Oct 03, 2018 at 03:13pm.
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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 12:27pm
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Because when nonsense was happening in the (stupid) postgame handshake lines, administrators and parents weren't doing their job, so they decided to require the officials to be the babysitters that pick up the slack. Not only that, but they took away the ability of officials to penalize misbehavior even when they haven't left the visual confines. IOW, the MIAA ignores the NFHS rule regarding the end of the officials' jurisdiction while still requiring the officials to be present for the dog-and-pony show.

I wish we'd get rid of handshakes. Thankfully, most states (including mine) don't have this Massachusetts hooey.
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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 12:58pm
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Paperwork ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Not only that, but they took away the ability of officials to penalize misbehavior even when they haven't left the visual confines.
I believe that while they can't charge technical fouls, they can, and probably are required to, file a report with the appropriate authorities (assigner, league, state, etc.).
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Oct 03, 2018 at 01:04pm.
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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 01:01pm
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Why Not Basketball ??? It's Possible ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
It is Pop Warner, not sure the officials would have been completely off the field anyway.
I have little understating of football rules at any level, I was just trying to convey to our Forum basketball friends in The Bay State what they might see in a basketball handshake line scenario.

The fact that I can "yank their chains" and point out the foolishness of the handshake line requirement is an added bonus.
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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 01:04pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I believe that while can't charge technical fouls, they can, and probably are required to, file a report with the appropriate authorities.
That is great, except still completely contrary to NFHS rules. Why don't they make the administrators file such reports?
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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 01:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I have little understating of football rules at any level, I was just trying to convey to our Forum basketball friends in The Bay State what they might see in a basketball handshake line scenario.

The fact that I can "yank their chains" and point out the foolishness of the handshake line requirement is an added bonus.
I'm saying the environment is different. Even in football we leave the field and do not stick around to watch them give handshakes. But you usually have a lot further to go to a locker room in a high school setting and you literally have no locker room in youth sports like this. My point is that it is possible that the officials could have seen this on some level, but if the officials are in a regular high school situation, they are not sticking around for the purpose of watching the handshake.

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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 01:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Because when nonsense was happening in the (stupid) postgame handshake lines, administrators and parents weren't doing their job, so they decided to require the officials to be the babysitters that pick up the slack.
This isn't true. It was implemented so that basketball would be consistent with all the other sports, which have a post-game handshake that is observed by officials. It is not a policing mechanism. Rather, it is so that the officials can be part of the "sportsmanship celebration". Yes, really.

Prior to this year, officials were not required to shake the players hands as part of the celebration, but were allowed to do so if they desired. This year, however, it seems likely that the MIAA will change that and say that we observe the line and then leave the floor without shaking hands/fist-bumping the players. That's not a done deal yet, but it's being recommended.

Quote:
Not only that, but they took away the ability of officials to penalize misbehavior even when they haven't left the visual confines. IOW, the MIAA ignores the NFHS rule regarding the end of the officials' jurisdiction while still requiring the officials to be present for the dog-and-pony show.
This is kind of true. The officials are allowed to assess technical fouls during the handshake, but the penalties are not applied during the game. They are charged and reported to the state office. For coaches, they can still be suspended or penalized, but the result of the game is not affected.

Quote:
I wish we'd get rid of handshakes. Thankfully, most states (including mine) don't have this Massachusetts hooey.
I wouldn't mind the handshake at all if we did it BEFORE the game. It still promotes sportsmanship among the participants, but does so at a time when emotions aren't running high.
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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 01:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 View Post
This isn't true. It was implemented so that basketball would be consistent with all the other sports, which have a post-game handshake that is observed by officials. It is not a policing mechanism. Rather, it is so that the officials can be part of the "sportsmanship celebration". Yes, really.

Prior to this year, officials were not required to shake the players hands as part of the celebration, but were allowed to do so if they desired. This year, however, it seems likely that the MIAA will change that and say that we observe the line and then leave the floor without shaking hands/fist-bumping the players. That's not a done deal yet, but it's being recommended.
The other sports' policies were/are dumb, as well. Might as well have the officials lead a chant before the game as happens in some wreck leagues.

Quote:
This is kind of true. The officials are allowed to assess technical fouls during the handshake, but the penalties are not applied during the game. They are charged and reported to the state office. For coaches, they can still be suspended or penalized, but the result of the game is not affected.
Still contrary to NFHS rules. If you assess a T after the final horn and the points could affect the outcome of the game, you are supposed to attempt the FTs.

Quote:
I wouldn't mind the handshake at all if we did it BEFORE the game. It still promotes sportsmanship among the participants, but does so at a time when emotions aren't running high.
Maybe I'm just cynical, but I doubt any behavior is changing based on the presence or absence of a pregame handshake.
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Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 02:35pm
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Pretend (Nat King Cole, 1953) …

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I'm saying the environment is different.
Agree 100%, it's like comparing apples to meatloaf © 2018 Raymond, and maybe I shouldn't have even posted this article on a basketball forum. My point, maybe expressed poorly, was that any generic post game handshake line could escalate into something unsporting, and that almost all of us (that don't work in Massachusetts) would not normally have to deal with this unsporting situation in a basketball game, because almost all of us would already be in the locker room, turning on the water in the shower to get the water to run hot.

In other words, pretend that this was not in Virginia, but rather, in Massachusetts; and then pretend that it wasn't a football game, but a basketball game; and then thank our lucky stars that almost all of us don't work in Massachusetts.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Oct 03, 2018 at 03:42pm.
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