The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Oct 02, 2018, 03:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
NFHS messes up GT and BI

Thought that I would post another messed up NFHS exam question.

"If a goaltending violation is penalized for touching the ball entering the basket from below:"

Yet the NFHS definition of goaltending is: "Goaltending occurs when a player touches the ball during a field-goal try or tap while the ball is in its downward flight entirely above the basket ring level, has the possibility of entering the basket in flight and is not touching the basket cylinder or a player touches the ball outside the cylinder during a free-throw attempt."

So the scenario proposed by the NFHS in the exam question does not qualify as goaltending!

The question should involve basket interference.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 09:14am
#thereferee99
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 624
such an easy fix...

it would be so easy to run these questions past a knowledgeable group for judgement about accuracy and clarity.

SMH
__________________
-- #thereferee99
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 11:23am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by referee99 View Post
it would be so easy to run these questions past a knowledgeable group for judgement about accuracy and clarity.

SMH

Either IAABO's Rules Examination Committee or its Officials Education and Development Committee would be two such groups; I am sure that the California Basketball Officials Association has standing committees that could handle such an assignment; and the Ohio Association of Basketball Officials is another such organization that could handle such an assignment as well.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 11:48am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 1,139
What was the question even supposed to be about? I'm lucky that my answer on the DC rules test was correct, but I had no idea what the point was supposed to be.

I don't believe that there could be either BI or GT on this play, because GT requires a ball on its downward flight toward the basket, with a chance to score, and BI requires a ball on or inside the basket to be contacted, and the play in the question had neither. A ball entering the basket from below is a separate violation, so the ball would be dead before either BI or GT could apply.

Last edited by ilyazhito; Wed Oct 03, 2018 at 03:09pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 11:51am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,044
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
What was the question even supposed to be about? I'mean lucky that my answer on the DC rules test was correct, but I had no idea what the point was supposed to be.

I don'the believe that there could be either BI or GT on this play, because GT requires a ball on its downward flight toward the basket, with a chance to score, and BI requires a ball on or inside the basket to be contacted, and the play in the question had neither.


Do you belong to the IAABO's DC Board?

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 01:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
BI requires a ball on or inside the basket to be contacted, and the play in the question had neither.
Wasn't the ball in the basket in the OP?
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 02:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 12,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Wasn't the ball in the basket in the OP?
Not necessarily....it doesn't say.

Quote:
If a goaltending violation is penalized for touching the ball entering the basket from below:
I thought this was poorly worded even ignoring the question of BI or GT. Exactly what is entering from below? The ball or the player's hand? I'm sure they mean the player's hand given the context but that sentence is horrible.

Even so, the ball may or may not be in the basket at the time it is touched. It is possible for a player to reach through the basket from below and touch/block a shot that has not yet entered the cylinder/basket. Either what, that is BI, not GT.

BI Rule:
Quote:
ART. 1 . . . Touches the ball or any part of the basket (including the net) while the ball is on or within either basket.
ART. 2 . . . Touches the ball while any part of the ball is within the imaginary cylinder which has the basket ring as its lower base.
ART. 3 . . . Touches the ball outside the cylinder while reaching through the basket from below.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association

Last edited by Camron Rust; Wed Oct 03, 2018 at 02:03pm.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 02:45pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,934
Hagar The Horrible ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not necessarily ... it doesn't say ... this was poorly worded ... what is entering from below ... that sentence is horrible.
Horrible to say the least. When something is written to be printed and distrusted to a large number of recipients, doesn't somebody else edit, or at least read, such a document?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 03:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 1,139
I do. However, the DC Board (Board 12) no longer works public high school games in DC (other organizations have the contracts for public and charter school games), so Board 12 members don't usually take the DC test. I do, because I also belong to the organization that does have the DC public schools contract, and because I want the practice taking an earlier rules test (DC releases its tests earlier than MD and VA), so that I can do better on the MD and VA tests.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Wed Oct 03, 2018, 04:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 14,995
The question is intended to test your knowledge of the correct enforcement of 9-12 Penalty 3, but fails because it states goaltending instead of basket interference.

9-12 Penalty 3:
"If the violation results from touching the ball while it is in the basket after entering from below, no points are scored and the ball is awarded to the opponents for a throw-in from the designated out-of-bounds spot nearest the violation."

The question is poorly written, but attempts to describe the ball entering the net from below, yet not clearing the ring, and while inside of the net a player touches it.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New NFHS "Differences bet. NFHS and NCAA" Freddy Basketball 8 Wed Sep 26, 2018 12:43pm
NEW - 2003 NFHS Football Rule Changes (as written by the NFHS Rules Committee) KWH Football 27 Tue Jan 21, 2003 11:30am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:44am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1