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Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 12:00am
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9-9-1 exception

I am having a hard time trying to figure out what is new with this rule and exception. What makes this different from last year?
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 03:16am
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Absolutely nothing.

It is someone's way out of pushing a bogus interpretation without admitting they were wrong.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 06:55am
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Here's the interpretation from 2017-18 that was erroneous and is no longer valid (but of course they wouldn't admit to it). They put out the same interpretation ~10 years earlier and doubled down on it last year before making the exception this year.

SITUATION 7: A1, in the team’s frontcourt, passes towards A2, also in the team’s frontcourt. B1 deflects the ball toward Team A’s backcourt. The ball bounces only in Team A’s frontcourt before crossing the division line. While the ball is still in the air over Team A’s backcourt, but never having touched in Team A’s backcourt, A2 gains possession of the ball while standing in Team A’s backcourt. RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status. Had A2 permitted the ball to bounce in the backcourt after having been deflected by B1, there would have been no backcourt violation.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 03:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Absolutely nothing.

It is someone's way out of pushing a bogus interpretation without admitting they were wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
Here's the interpretation from 2017-18 that was erroneous and is no longer valid (but of course they wouldn't admit to it). They put out the same interpretation ~10 years earlier and doubled down on it last year before making the exception this year.

SITUATION 7: A1, in the team’s frontcourt, passes towards A2, also in the team’s frontcourt. B1 deflects the ball toward Team A’s backcourt. The ball bounces only in Team A’s frontcourt before crossing the division line. While the ball is still in the air over Team A’s backcourt, but never having touched in Team A’s backcourt, A2 gains possession of the ball while standing in Team A’s backcourt. RULING: Backcourt violation on Team A. Team A was still in team control and caused the ball to have backcourt status. Had A2 permitted the ball to bounce in the backcourt after having been deflected by B1, there would have been no backcourt violation.

1) The NFHS 2017-18 Rules Interpretation SITUATION 7 and its RULING was neither a "bogus" nor an "erroneous" Interpretation. And it has always been my opinion that the Situation 7 Ruling is the correct Interpretation.

2) But moving forward with this discussion, as a long time commentator in the Basketball Forum I can attest that discussions regarding this play have been taking place all across the country for at least ten years.

3) I started officiating basketball in 1971. I graduated from H.S. in 1969 and played H.S. basketball for a Head Coach who had been an OhioHSAA registered basketball official since his college days after World War II until he retired from coaching in 1971. What that meant is that his players were taught the rules of the game as part of learning how to play the game of basketball. As an example since my freshmen year I have been able to quote chapter and verse with regard to Guarding and Screening (Block/Charge).

4i) Prior to the NFHS 2018-19 R9-S9-A1 EXCEPTION being adopted, the RULING that a Backcourt Violation had occurred for 2017-18 SITUATION 7 goes back to before 1960, at least.

4ii) The logic behind the RULING is described as follows: A2 does two things simultaneously: 1) Causes the Ball to go from Team A's Front Court to Team A's Backcourt and 2) Is the first to touch the Ball in the Backcourt after causing it to go from Team A's Front Court to Team A's Backourt. And for the vast majority of old geezers like me, this analysis is logical, LOL. And that is why the "old" RULING was neither "bogus" or "erroneous".

5) It has only been in the last ten years or so that younger (I mean by experience) and some older (also by experience) that have questioned this RULING.

6) I have always been a proponent of the original RULING (and had I been voting on the Rules Change I would have voted against the new RULING), meaning I prefer the old RULING, and there are many people on the Forum that will agree that I have always been an ardent proponent of the old RULING.

7) BUT as far as I am concerned I am not going to lose any sleep over the new RULING. It is the new RULING so lets move on.

MTD, Sr.
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 03:39pm
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Begrudgingly ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
I have always been a proponent of the original RULING (and had I been voting on the Rules Change I would have voted against the new RULING), meaning I prefer the old RULING, and there are many people on the Forum that will agree that I have always been an ardent proponent of the old RULING.
According to a Forum member with inside information about the NFHS Rules Committee meetings, there were several on the committee who wanted to keep the interpretation intact and to not change any rules regarding such.

Quote:
Originally Posted by walt View Post
... a guy who is an IAABO National Interpreter and is a member of the NFHS rules committee ... he said there are still people on the NFHS rules committee who believe this previous rule interpretation should stand ... He told me there was almost two hours of discussion about the wording of the "new interpretation" and what is written is what was begrudgingly agreed upon.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Sep 20, 2018 at 03:54pm.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 03:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
I can't find the post, but according to a Forum member with inside information about the NFHS Rules Committee meetings, there were several on the committee who wanted to keep the interpretation intact and to not change any rules regarding such.

I would not be surprised that it was not a unanimous vote, but the ayes prevailed, and it is time that we old geezers accept the rule change.

MTD, Sr.
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 03:46pm
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Old Geezers ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
... it is time that we old geezers accept the rule change.
Old geezers? Speak for yourself.

I found the post I was looking for. See my above post edit.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 03:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Old geezers? Speak for yourself.

I resemble that remark, LOL! But I think that I am getting mellow in my old age.

MTD, Sr.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 03:53pm
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Are We There Yet ???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
But I think that I am getting mellow in my old age.
This is my first week of retirement from my day job as a chemist.

I've already yelled at the neighbor kids, several times, to get off my front lawn. I even threatened to turn the hose on them.

I've already bought some hard candy for the grandkids. Kids love the hard candy.

I've lost my car keys, and my reading glasses, numerous times.

When will I officially become an old geezer?
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 03:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
This is my first week of retirement from my day job as a chemist.

I've already yelled at the neighbor kids, several times, to get off my front lawn. I even threatened to turn the hose on them.

I've already bought some hard candy for the grandkids. Kids love the hard candy.

I've lost my car keys, and my reading glasses, numerous times.

When will I officially become an old geezer?

Billy:

Welcome to the club. I didn't now you had retired. I was wondering why you were doing a lot of posting during work hours.

MTD, Sr.
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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
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International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 04:02pm
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I've Got Plenty ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Welcome to the club. I didn't now you had retired.
Want some hard candy?

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 05:02pm
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Want some hard candy?


Thank you. I love cherry and orange.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 05:22pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
4ii) The logic behind the RULING is described as follows: A2 does two things simultaneously: 1) Causes the Ball to go from Team A's Front Court to Team A's Backcourt and 2) Is the first to touch the Ball in the Backcourt after causing it to go from Team A's Front Court to Team A's Backourt. And for the vast majority of old geezers like me, this analysis is logical, LOL. And that is why the "old" RULING was neither "bogus" or "erroneous".

5) It has only been in the last ten years or so that younger (I mean by experience) and some older (also by experience) that have questioned this RULING.
It has never been that way and the first I ever heard of someone that though so was when the bogus ruling came out about 10 years ago. It wasn't questioned before because that ruling never existed.

I'm shocked that you actually believe this since the rule doesn't say anything about causing it to go into the backcourt but about being the last to touch BEFORE it goes to the backcourt and being the first to touch it AFTER going to the backcourt.

From a mathematical perspective, this ruling would mean that the following statement could be true: x < y < x. Show me a number where that holds true and I'll agree with you.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 05:35pm
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Advance Notice ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
... ruling would mean that the following statement could be true: x < y < x. Show me a number where that holds true and I'll agree with you.
I was told that there wouldn't be any math on the Forum today.

This looks suspiciously like algebra, and to paraphrase the words of Tom Hanks, "There's no algebra in basketball".

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. will be moseying along shortly, with his fancy engineering degrees, and his old fashioned slide rule, to dispute the math.

I haven't taken an algebra class since 1970.

I was in the advanced group. Most other students only took three classes, Hunt'in, Grunt'in, and Cave Painting.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Thu Sep 20, 2018 at 05:45pm.
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Old Thu Sep 20, 2018, 06:46pm
CJP CJP is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post

From a mathematical perspective, this ruling would mean that the following statement could be true: x < y < x. Show me a number where that holds true and I'll agree with you.
Think of the ball hitting the floor in the backcourt being equivalent to slapping a negative sign on the x on the left. -x < y < x. It's all about the status of the ball. Makes sense to me.
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