Player and Referee Brawl

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If you say so. I guess you are going to run out of the building? Not always practical.

Peace

Officials should immediately seek to put as much space between themselves and any physical assailant(s) as quickly as possible. Doing anything to put gas on the fire (getting up in the face of the attacker) is a huge mistake. Tough guy egos should have been checked at the door. That video is a perfect case study for how *not* to handle yourself as an official in the midst of a brawl.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

I'm all for defending yourself.

Watch the video again. What does the official do after being knocked to the ground? He gathers himself, stands up and instead of heading directly to a lockerroom or somewhere safe off the court, gets right up in a kid's face and chest bumps him. A KID.

Walk or jog away, man. Man up, drop the ego and get yourself immediately out of the situation.

The video will back you up 100. Instead, the video shows the official inviting continued violence.

-100

this assumes a lot and poses a wonderful hypothetical. 1 kid took him down and 3-4 kids were hovering over. Ya just get up, dust yourself off and walk off the court like nothing happened. That's funny if you ask me.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Officials should immediately seek to put as much space between themselves and any physical assailant(s) as quickly as possible. Doing anything to put gas on the fire (getting up in the face of the attacker) is a huge mistake. Tough guy egos should have been checked at the door. That video is a perfect case study for how *not* to handle yourself as an official in the midst of a brawl.

I would hope any official in such a scenario is not left with you as a partner....

[Bad Zebra]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Officials should immediately seek to put as much space between themselves and any physical assailant(s) as quickly as possible. Doing anything to put gas on the fire (getting up in the face of the attacker) is a huge mistake. Tough guy egos should have been checked at the door. That video is a perfect case study for how *not* to handle yourself as an official in the midst of a brawl.

Spoken like somebody who has never been in a physically threatening situation.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

Spoken like somebody who has never been in a physically threatening situation.

Is it?

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by deecee

-100

this assumes a lot and poses a wonderful hypothetical. 1 kid took him down and 3-4 kids were hovering over. Ya just get up, dust yourself off and walk off the court like nothing happened. That's funny if you ask me.

No, you count on your partner(s), coaches, and other sane and decent adults 'in the room' to assist you in disengaging from the chaos. Then you get video of the situation, if possible, get police to the scene, file a report, and deal with it legally. That would be realistic. The picture you painted with sarcasm and satire is not.

I would also lay odds that my 'picture' would be suggested and supported by a lot of law enforcement individuals, and likely most basketball assignors.

1 kid pushed him down. The 3-4 other kids could have easily made it a dog pile, but didn't. The official got up and engaged/charged at the player (in legal terms likely a MINOR). The official COULD have gone the opposite direction preventing the majority of the chaos that ensued.

But to some I guess that means he would have been 'less of a man'....

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Officials should immediately seek to put as much space between themselves and any physical assailant(s) as quickly as possible. Doing anything to put gas on the fire (getting up in the face of the attacker) is a huge mistake. Tough guy egos should have been checked at the door. That video is a perfect case study for how *not* to handle yourself as an official in the midst of a brawl.

Agree. You're right on every point.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

No, you count on your partner(s), coaches, and other sane and decent adults 'in the room' to assist you in disengaging from the chaos. Then you get video of the situation, if possible, get police to the scene, file a report, and deal with it legally. That would be realistic. The picture you painted with sarcasm and satire is not.

I would also lay odds that my 'picture' would be suggested and supported by a lot of law enforcement individuals, and likely most basketball assignors.

1 kid pushed him down. The 3-4 other kids could have easily made it a dog pile, but didn't. The official got up and engaged/charged at the player (in legal terms likely a MINOR). The official COULD have gone the opposite direction preventing the majority of the chaos that ensued.

But to some I guess that means he would have been 'less of a man'....

Since when are these free-for-all tournaments known for having "sane and decent adults" around?

This was not a high school game with administrators and cops standing guard.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Since when are these free-for-all tournaments known for having "sane and decent adults" around?

This was not a high school game with administrators and cops standing guard.

Even more reason to immediately distance/remove oneself from the fray.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Even more reason to immediately distance/remove oneself from the fray.

So what do you do when you are followed to the parking lot? Yes that happened to me when walking away.

Again we can play the holier-than-thou card all day, but not every situation is as easy as you are trying to make it.

And even if we do not agree with every action, I understand why it happened.

Peace

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So what do you do when you are followed to the parking lot? Yes that happened to me when walking away.

Again we can play the holier-than-thou card all day, but not every situation is as easy as you are trying to make it.

And even if we do not agree with every action, I understand why it happened.

Peace

Easy?

Nothing we as officials do in preparation or on the court, relatively speaking, is considered "easy".

My comments are about doing what is right. And, most of the time, as life has taught us over and over, the right thing to do is rarely ever easy.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

So what do you do when you are followed to the parking lot?

What do I do? I keep walking at a fast pace, get into my car and drive away.

What do you recommend?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

Officials should immediately seek to put as much space between themselves and any physical assailant(s) as quickly as possible. Doing anything to put gas on the fire (getting up in the face of the attacker) is a huge mistake. Tough guy egos should have been checked at the door. That video is a perfect case study for how *not* to handle yourself as an official in the midst of a brawl.

Again, we are not obligated to some professional stance when there is no professional organization involved. This is a glorified playground game. It has little to do with ego. And this is also not a very structured environment. Yes, it has some uniforms, but so does intermural ball at the YMCA. I have known officials that were police officer being threatened where they had to get their gun to stop any threat at the time. And they left the situation or tried to and still had a threat. It is more than ego. It is you use the tools you have at the time.

And the video is not perfect for anything other than a summer league situation. Because during the season there are likely police officers right off the court. I had a fight between teams one time and police, security (that were police) all got involved. I remember a football game in Chicago where they have security at every game and entered the field when players were getting involved with each other. I do not know what this shows other than there was no security and no non-combatants getting involved. IF you are alone you might do many things to get that threat off of you.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by #olderthanilook

What do I do? I keep walking at a fast pace, get into my car and drive away.

What do you recommend?

You can do whatever you wish. I am just saying that you can run but might not have a place to run to as easily as you claim you do. You might not have a locker room or a secure room if this is not a very organized situation. If you have noticed, I never told you to do whatever you wish, just pointing out that your solution in many venues is short-sighted. Because if stuff goes down and you are cornered, you might do all kinds of things or have to. Again, easy to judge sitting on a computer.

Peace

[Raymond]

There is a point after the first attack that the situation could have ended without further incident.

That being said, I believe some here are holding these basketball officials to a higher standard than they hold any other people, professions or people in positions of authority. We are still human; the stripes we wear aren't some magic cape that make us impervious to human emotions and reactions.