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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 08, 2018, 09:15pm
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Player and Referee Brawl

Not sure when this kind of stuff will end, pretty sickening:

AAU team, referees involved in on-court brawl at Gatorade Associations tournament finals
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Old Sun Jul 08, 2018, 10:20pm
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The other coach has said the team was fighting amongst itself and completely started the physical confrontation with the officials.

A couple of interesting omments on Deadspin:

"Officiating AAU basketball is not a fun experience. I refuse to work any more tournaments. They are totally money-making operations first. Even last year’s incidents with Lamar Ball’s team are not unusual.

In New England, there are only one or two organizations running most of the tournaments. No matter how much experience the official has, they still want you to work 3-4 games unpaid so they can “evaluate” you to see if you can handle that level. And their rates are barely half what we can get for travel ball and high school level games. Sadly, there are officials struggling for work who will do those games, sometimes 8-9 a day, because they need the money, so the rates will stay low because there will always be someone willing to take it."

Since the tournaments are all about money, they need to get in as many games as possible on the schedule. They tell officials not to call too many fouls, so the games stay on time. This leads to games getting very physical and out of hand. The directors will also overrule officials when it comes to technical fouls and ejections, so they can keep the teams happy and coming back ($$$$)."

"You are 1000% correct. I’d refereed off and on for 40+ years. At one point was asked to start calling NCAA-III games (4 days before 1st game destroyed my R hip). Then this new organization came in, very political, and under the premise of better organization, more professional and consistent, etc. The same thing you discussed: work tournament games FREE for two days, 40 miles from home to be “evaluated” by the new guys. Overturned my T on a coach who ran onto a floor screaming at me. The team happened to be part of an organization sponsored by an NBA player who lived in the area. The pay wasn’t what it was under the old system. I’m done and don’t miss it."

Who would put up with stuff like this? As a profession/avocation why do we tolrate such shitty pay and treatment?
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Old Sun Jul 08, 2018, 10:53pm
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Seems that this happens often in Georgia.
Isn't this about the third story to be posted of a brawl out of that state?
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Old Sun Jul 08, 2018, 11:54pm
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That is absolutely stupid. I understand that these players want to make the NBA, but seeing them (and their team) behave like that would want to make me think twice about recommending one of them, if I was in a position to do so. If I was officiating there, I don't know if I would come back.
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2018, 08:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Who would put up with stuff like this? As a profession/avocation why do we tolerate such shitty pay and treatment?
I know you know all this, but I'm going to say it anyway for others who might not know.

There will ALWAYS be people in our avocation who will sell their souls to the devil. Either because they really want the money or they're trying to win favor with an assigner. The money, the "prestige" of the assignments, etc. is more important to them than sticking up for themselves, their fellow officials, and the avocation. Many of the assigners for this type of ball just want the money and everything else is secondary; they don't want you to "rock the boat" by making calls that might not be popular. If you do, you'll be complained about and not used anymore. Tournament directors are in it for the money, too; if "coaches" don't like the way the games are officiated, they'll go to another tournament next year and the TD won't get their entry fee. So, for many (not all) of these events, the officials who take the games are at the mercy of what the assigner wants, who is at the mercy of what the TD wants, who is at the mercy of what the coaches want–and that is, to be able to behave however they choose because "we paid to be here."

Since there are plenty of officials for whom the money is of primary importance, tournament directors and assigners have no reason to negotiate for higher pay and better working conditions. It truly is sad, but all I can control is what I do. And I simply don't work this crap anymore. If I was a younger official trying to get experience or a broke college student trying to make money, my mentality might be different. Thankfully that's not the case.
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2018, 01:35pm
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Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
That is absolutely stupid. I understand that these players want to make the NBA, but seeing them (and their team) behave like that would want to make me think twice about recommending one of them, if I was in a position to do so. If I was officiating there, I don't know if I would come back.
And the behavior isn't limited to the levels where the players have D1 potential (let alone NBA). I was bewildered watching the behavior when my son played AAU tournaments. (This is his last year, and he's missing the rest of the summer with a hand injury--I sure as heck won't miss it.)
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2018, 02:27pm
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Those officials, though.....HO LEE SH&*! What were they freaking doing out there??? Chest bumping....throwing dukes....chasing and assaulting juveniles.

Idiots.

Embarrassing.
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2018, 03:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by #olderthanilook View Post
Those officials, though.....HO LEE SH&*! What were they freaking doing out there??? Chest bumping....throwing dukes....chasing and assaulting juveniles.

Idiots.

Embarrassing.
I call it self-defense.

Shrug.
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2018, 04:59pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I call it self-defense.

Shrug.
^

Why is it okay for everyone to defend themselves except the people most susceptible to being harmed (i.e. us)?

"Because we're supposed to be the calming presence" yada yada yada. If someone takes a swing at me you think I'm supposed to stand there and take it?
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2018, 05:12pm
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Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
^

Why is it okay for everyone to defend themselves except the people most susceptible to being harmed (i.e. us)?

"Because we're supposed to be the calming presence" yada yada yada. If someone takes a swing at me you think I'm supposed to stand there and take it?
Sorry, then pay me more. Put a comma in the check and I might think of walking away. Until then for anything much less than half of what I make during a game of the same caliber, I am not taking an ass whoopin for anyone. And it would take a lot for me not to help out on some level if a partner is getting beat on.

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Old Mon Jul 09, 2018, 05:25pm
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If a player attacks me, I'm defending myself and getting the heck out of there. Watch your back and run away if need be
Mob mentality and players/people lose control and do things they normally would not.

Martin is one of the coaches of the white team. The team in black are doing the smart thing and getting the heck out of there. I hope the police interview the fans and security to find out what happened.
Don't know if this is true from the article.
Benjamin said Martin told the referee that he would "whip your ass" at the start of the game, which was edgy from the beginning.

Benjamin said he could sense the opposing team's frustration as it was losing late in the game, so he cautioned his squad to stay alert for any cheap shots. Some R.A.W. Athletics players even argued with Martin, Benjamin said.
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2018, 05:43pm
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Originally Posted by TopicalTropical View Post
Benjamin said Martin told the referee that he would "whip your ass" at the start of the game, which was edgy from the beginning.
Anywhere in which that is not an immediate ejection from the facility with a significant suspension is not somewhere a rational person would want to referee.

I gave up worrying about how bad the refs were at those tournaments and just laughed about it--I knew they already exhibited an inability to make good decisions by being there at all.
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Old Mon Jul 09, 2018, 06:46pm
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As much as stuff like this makes me shake my head in disgust I can't help but come to the conclusion of "oh well, you get out of something what you put into it."

If punks want to be punks then so be it. I'm going to stay away, though.

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Old Tue Jul 10, 2018, 07:24am
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Originally Posted by TopicalTropical View Post
If a player attacks me, I'm defending myself and getting the heck out of there. Watch your back and run away if need be
Mob mentality and players/people lose control and do things they normally would not.

Martin is one of the coaches of the white team. The team in black are doing the smart thing and getting the heck out of there. I hope the police interview the fans and security to find out what happened.
Don't know if this is true from the article.
...
This case will die quietly. The incident happened in Georgia and the team is from Chicago. I doubt there will be extradition for a bunch of juveniles for what will amount to basic assault charges.
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Old Tue Jul 10, 2018, 07:58am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Sorry, then pay me more. Put a comma in the check and I might think of walking away. Until then for anything much less than half of what I make during a game of the same caliber, I am not taking an ass whoopin for anyone. And it would take a lot for me not to help out on some level if a partner is getting beat on.
Exactly.

Once a confrontation turns from yelling at me to taking a swing at me or my partner, all bets are off. Scream at me all you want and I can eject you and forfeit the game if necessary. Throw a haymaker at me and I have every right to self-defense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
This case will die quietly. The incident happened in Georgia and the team is from Chicago. I doubt there will be extradition for a bunch of juveniles for what will amount to basic assault charges.
Yep. Nothing is going to come of this.

If this was a high school game it would be a completely different animal.
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