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  #31 (permalink)  
Old Sat Jun 30, 2018, 09:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ODog View Post
Agreed.

Obviously the 10-15 seconds of the OP is absurd and an EASY technical, but generally speaking, TONS of teams run inbounds plays on the endline where the inbounder purposely delays and then pops in to receive the return pass. We've all seen it 100s of times.

And as the administering official, you can see it coming a mile away. Your choices are:
1.) Call the rules-based T and then prepare to explain that rule to the coach/player, since fewer than 5 percent of them (and all of the fans not relevant, but nonetheless) realize this is an illegal tactic.
2.) Say "Come right inbounds" (or something similar) to the inbounder once it's clear that's his plan. I do this all the time. It works 99 out of 100 times and prevents the mess. For the one kid who doesn't listen AND subsequently receives the inbounds pass, you call the T and are also armed with the fact you tried to save him when the coach prepares to rip your head off.

FWIW, I would have no T in the video posted. In my judgment, not purposeful or deceitful, and he never even became part of the play.

I'm with sdoebler on this one. Those who aren't must call a looootttttt of 3-seconds violations in their games.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed View Post
The play in this video is NOT a technical foul and an incorrect call. To all the officials reading this thread, for the love of God do not call this situation a technical foul.


I assume they also start most lower level games they have ever worked with T's for not having a roster to the scorer in required time.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 01, 2018, 12:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
2. Really? A D1 clinician doesn't know that rule?!?! You should get a refund of your camp fee due to instructor incompetence.
Agreed. At my camp I had a clinician tell me when I called a kicked ball, I need to think about what I am going to tell the coach before I make a call. Wasn't a D1 official but still.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 01, 2018, 07:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Always listen to bob.

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended,
unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.


4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
ART. 3 After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is
released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball
is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
ART. 4 After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before
the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. Neither foot may be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
Usually the next question is about passing off the backboard. Pass is defined as being between players. I recall the debate but not the outcome/citation. Maybe it was illegal by rule but never called???

A1 obviously throws the ball off the backboard to himself and then lays the ball in the basket. Legal?
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 01, 2018, 07:40pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
Usually the next question is about passing off the backboard. Pass is defined as being between players. I recall the debate but not the outcome/citation. Maybe it was illegal by rule but never called???

A1 obviously throws the ball off the backboard to himself and then lays the ball in the basket. Legal?
Legal. Specific case plays in FED and NCAA.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jul 01, 2018, 09:48pm
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Citation Please ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
A1 obviously throws the ball off the backboard to himself and then lays the ball in the basket. Legal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Legal. Specific case plays in FED ...
Not interpreted as a try in the caseplay? Shooter takes an additional step after the airborne release in the caseplay? Off the player's own backboard that his team is shooting at in the caseplay?

I would love to see that NFHS caseplay.

4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

This (above) says it's a try. I want to see a caseplay where the release is "obviously" not a try, as in bucky's post.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used.

This (above) says it legal to throw the ball off one's own backboard, but it doesn't say what's legal to do next. He can legally catch it since the ball touching one's own backboard in not considered part of a dribble, but what can he legally do after he catches it? Also, this caseplay doesn't indicate whether, or not, the player moves his pivot foot between the release and the catch.

https://www.facebook.com/22189113782...6733955009150/

https://youtu.be/uAskXXKV2GU

A few years ago somebody posted a video on the Forum of a college player (possibly a Duke player) driving down the lane, becoming airborne, seeing his shot will be blocked, deliberately throws the ball off the backboard, takes additional steps, catches the ball, passes (while airborne) to a teammate in the corner who hits a three. Nice video. I can't find it.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 02, 2018 at 06:03am.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jul 02, 2018, 06:01am
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Wouldn't It Be Nice (The Beach Boys, 1966) ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Not interpreted as a try in the caseplay?
It would certainly be nice if the NFHS would define any ball thrown at the backboard, that touches the backboard, as a try, but, as far as I know, the NFHS hasn't done that yet.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Jul 02, 2018 at 04:01pm.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 03, 2018, 12:37pm
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So, aorn, we do not have a rule/case that indicates passing the ball to yourself off the backboard is legal. Anyone got something? If not, what is the violation?
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jul 03, 2018, 04:15pm
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Moving A Pivot Foot Outside The Prescribed Limits ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
... we do not have a rule/case that indicates passing the ball to yourself off the backboard is legal.
Who says that we don't have a citation that says that it's legal, although a player, by definition, can't make a self pass.

4-31: A pass is movement of the ball caused by a player who throws, bats or rolls the
ball to another player.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used.

4-15-1: A dribble is ball movement caused by a player in control who bats
(intentionally strikes the ball with the hand(s)) or pushes the ball to the floor one or several times. It is not a part of a dribble when the ball touches a player’s own
backboard.


So, in at least one specific case, not only can he legally throw it against his own backboard, but he also legally catch it after it bounces back.

We don't know, in 9.5 SITUATION, if said player moved his pivot foot (I'm assuming he didn't for this to be legal), or any foot, before the release. That would make a difference in regard to if he's actually allowed to legally catch it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
... If not, what is the violation?
In these "throw the ball off the backboard and dunk plays", most likely moving a pivot foot outside the prescribed limits, in other words a travel violation.

4-44-3: The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is
released on a pass or try for goal.


Of course, it's not a pass, nor is it a shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky View Post
A1 obviously throws the ball off the backboard to himself and then lays the ball in the basket.
All of this assumes that the official did not rule the throw off the backboard to be a try. If it was ruled a try, then the player can legally do just about anything.

The shooter can retrieve his or her own airball, if the official considers it to be a shot attempt. The release ends team control. It is not a violation for that player to start another dribble at that point.
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Last edited by BillyMac; Wed Jul 04, 2018 at 05:49am.
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 04, 2018, 04:43pm
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Guess I need to be more specific. I will start a new topic.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jul 04, 2018, 08:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdoebler View Post
1. Not sure why there are two people chopping the clock
I suggest you check your mechanics manual.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jul 05, 2018, 02:09am
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The purpose is so the table can see the clock being started. If the Lead makes a frontcourt throw-in from the endline, the table might not see the Lead's start-the-clock signal. This is why Trail mirrors the chop by Lead.

Conversely, if the teams are going backcourt to frontcourt, the new Trail is the only one who chops the clock, because the new Center has just finished administering substitutions (if there were any), and the new Lead has to get into his new position (Same for 2-person, minus the Center official).
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