random situations

[sdoebler]

Player A1 dribbles into the lane and jumps for a try. Player B2 jumps to block the shot. Player A2 is between B2 and the basket facing the basket, Player A1 realizes his shot is going to be blocked throws the ball at A2s back. The ball hits A2s back and bonces back to A1 while his is still in the air and he catches the ball. A1 lands dribbles to the basket and scores. Legal Play? Basically the bonce off A2s back is considered a pass and a pass back?


So this next situation actually also happened in a camp and the D1 clinician wasn't sure of the rule. Would like the NCAA rule and high school rule if possible.

A1 has the ball out of bounds near the basket for a front court spot throw in. A1 passes the ball in bounds and then stays in his spot out bounds. A good 10-15 seconds pass while team A is still in control in the front court and A1 is still at the point of the throw in standing out of bounds. Is he required to return to the court at the conclusion of the throw in at any time period?

Thanks

[Raymond]

Someone will cite the applicable rule, but that is a technical in the NCAA-Men's and NFHS rule sets; Class B in NCAA-Men's.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Someone will cite the applicable rule, but that is a technical in the NCAA-Men's and NFHS rule sets; Class B in NCAA-Men's.

Section 4. CLASS B TECHNICAL INFRACTIONS
Art. 1.
k. Purposely delaying his return to the playing court after being legally out
of bounds;

Ah that's NCAA, thanks still working on finding NFHS

[sdoebler]

NFHS

SECTION 3 PLAYER TECHNICAL
A player shall not:

ART. 2 . . . Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

[bob jenkins]

Also NCAAW:

Art. 3. Player/Substitute Technical Fouls
j. Purposely delaying her return to the playing court after being legally out
of bounds.

Note that in practice, it's going to need to be a *really* long time and not just a momentary hesitation. I've never seen it called.

Your first play is legal.

[sdoebler]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Note that in practice, it's going to need to be a *really* long time and not just a momentary hesitation. I've never seen it called.

Right, I wasn't on the game but it was a solid 10-15 seconds which seems like forever when you are looking at the kid. Additionally, the situation could most likely be prevented by the official telling the kid "Get on the court"

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

NFHS
SECTION 3 PLAYER TECHNICAL
A player shall not:
ART. 2 Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Going back forty years, has this ever been a NFHS violation rather than a technical foul?

(Officiate long enough and it's not the rules that are confusing, it's the rule changes that are confusing.)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

NFHS SECTION 3 PLAYER TECHNICAL: A player shall not: Purposely and/or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Going back forty years, has this ever been a NFHS violation rather than a technical foul? (Officiate long enough and it's not the rules that are confusing, it's the rule changes that are confusing.)

Wait? Maybe it was this: A player shall not leave the court for an unauthorized reason, that used to be a technical foul that is now a violation?

I'm so confused. Where's Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. when you need him?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

Player A1 dribbles into the lane and jumps for a try. Player B2 jumps to block the shot. Player A2 is between B2 and the basket facing the basket, Player A1 realizes his shot is going to be blocked throws the ball at A2s back. The ball hits A2s back and bonces back to A1 while his is still in the air and he catches the ball. A1 lands dribbles to the basket and scores. Legal Play? Basically the bonce off A2s back is considered a pass and a pass back?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Your first play is legal.

Always listen to bob.

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended,
unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
ART. 3 After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is
released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball
is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
ART. 4 After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before
the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. Neither foot may be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Always listen to bob.

9-5: A player shall not dribble a second time after his/her first dribble has ended,
unless it is after he/she has lost control because of:
ART. 1 A try for field goal.
ART. 2 A touch by an opponent.
ART. 3 A pass or fumble which has then touched, or been touched by,
another player.

4-44: Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits
while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:
ART. 3 After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:
a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is
released on a pass or try for goal.
b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball
is released on a pass or try for goal.
c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
ART. 4 After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:
a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before
the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.
b. Neither foot may be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.

Usually the next question is about passing off the backboard. Pass is defined as being between players. I recall the debate but not the outcome/citation. Maybe it was illegal by rule but never called???

A1 obviously throws the ball off the backboard to himself and then lays the ball in the basket. Legal?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

Usually the next question is about passing off the backboard. Pass is defined as being between players. I recall the debate but not the outcome/citation. Maybe it was illegal by rule but never called???

A1 obviously throws the ball off the backboard to himself and then lays the ball in the basket. Legal?

Legal. Specific case plays in FED and NCAA.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

A1 obviously throws the ball off the backboard to himself and then lays the ball in the basket. Legal?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Legal. Specific case plays in FED ...

Not interpreted as a try in the caseplay? Shooter takes an additional step after the airborne release in the caseplay? Off the player's own backboard that his team is shooting at in the caseplay?

I would love to see that NFHS caseplay.

4.15.4 SITUATION C: After dribbling and coming to a stop, A1 throws the ball: (c) against his/her own backboard in an attempt to score (try), catches the rebound and dribbles again. RULING: In (c), the action is legal. Once the ball is released on the try, there is no player or team control, therefore, A1 can recover the rebound and begin a dribble.

This (above) says it's a try. I want to see a caseplay where the release is "obviously" not a try, as in bucky's post.

9.5 SITUATION: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the
ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; RULING: Legal in (a); a team’s own backboard
is considered part of that team’s “equipment” and may be used.

This (above) says it legal to throw the ball off one's own backboard, but it doesn't say what's legal to do next. He can legally catch it since the ball touching one's own backboard in not considered part of a dribble, but what can he legally do after he catches it? Also, this caseplay doesn't indicate whether, or not, the player moves his pivot foot between the release and the catch.

https://www.facebook.com/22189113782...6733955009150/

https://youtu.be/uAskXXKV2GU

A few years ago somebody posted a video on the Forum of a college player (possibly a Duke player) driving down the lane, becoming airborne, seeing his shot will be blocked, deliberately throws the ball off the backboard, takes additional steps, catches the ball, passes (while airborne) to a teammate in the corner who hits a three. Nice video. I can't find it.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Not interpreted as a try in the caseplay?

It would certainly be nice if the NFHS would define any ball thrown at the backboard, that touches the backboard, as a try, but, as far as I know, the NFHS hasn't done that yet.