Mechanics and clock situations (Video)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Even if it is a given that signal = call, which is debatable ...

True. We've been down this path before, it certainly has been debated here on the Forum over an over with no certain consensus, or conclusion.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

True. We've been down this path before, it certainly has been debated here on the Forum over an over with no certain consensus, or conclusion.

Is it debatable? I have never seen this conversation anywhere else but here and with one person honestly. So if it is that debatable we would be having this conversation several times in several places, but it never seems to happen that way. And what is disappointing is that this person actually had an email conversation where they could have asked for clarification of this issue, but didn't do just that. So I am not so sure this is even debatable but in someone's mind.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Is it debatable?

Are you saying that a large majority of Forum members have come to a consensus regarding this topic? That the word "call" is well defined, and may include a preliminary signal, by the NFHS and needs no discussion?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are you saying that a large majority of Forum members have come to a consensus regarding this topic? That the word "call" is well defined, and may include a preliminary signal, by the NFHS and needs no discussion?

Correct, it needs no discussion. It has never come up as a real world issue or scenario.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Correct, it needs no discussion.

In my opinion, a call is the same whether it's visual (signal, preliminary, or otherwise), or oral ("Block", "Charge", Timeout", "Travel", etc.).

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A call is when you blow your whistle and tell everyone what we are doing with signal or voice.

Whether, or not, the visual call, or oral call, or both, can be changed is another topic.

In some very specific cases officials routinely change calls (out of bounds call, partner comes in with a much better look, calling official decides to change call).

In the very specific case of 4.19.8 SITUATION C, the NFHS states that we stick with both of the conflicting calls (preliminary signals), thus a double foul.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Are you saying that a large majority of Forum members have come to a consensus regarding this topic? That the word "call" is well defined, and may include a preliminary signal, by the NFHS and needs no discussion?

This forum is a very small percentage of people to all officials, let alone the ones we actually deal with in life. Whether there is a consensus here or not means nothing if the people we deal with in any context never discuss this issue. In my world, no one has ever made this an issue the way it has been made here. I have heard individuals suggest we should go to the NCAA Women's interpretation, but never have anyone suggest that we should not invoke 4.19.8 Situation C as written. BTW I also work NCAA games and the rule interpretation is the same on the Men's side. So when this situation happens there, we go with the same result as the NF game suggests.

Peace