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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 07, 2018, 10:33am
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10-4-7 Sit

Friend has a game Saturday. Getting a little heated and the home point guard 100 lbs wet is coming across the 3 point line and tosses the ball to the corner. He sees his defender coming up and is slowing down to pick him up. He passes and runs over this bigger defender and lays him out on the floor.

From what I have learned from you guys I swear I have only two choices. My friend calls a live ball technicl foul. As I look through the list of like 10ish situations or rules none of them match for a live ball T.

Is this not either a intentional foul or a flagarant technical foul (considered a fighting act) correct?

Thanks in advance for all your help.
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Old Mon May 07, 2018, 10:51am
LRZ LRZ is offline
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From your description of what occurred, I don't get a clear picture of the contact, but the call could be an intentional personal foul, a flagrant personal foul, or simply a team control foul.

Fighting? I don't get this from your post; we would need more details.

Technical for the contact? Not during a live ball.
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Old Mon May 07, 2018, 11:53am
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A technical foul for contact while the ball is live? Your partner is a moron.

This is a personal foul. Without seeing video, it's hard to know whether it was just a garden-variety pass-and-crash play (TC foul) or something more. I find it hard to believe that a 100-lb. point guard could "lay out" a bigger defender.

It doesn't sound anywhere close to a fighting act.

Last edited by SC Official; Mon May 07, 2018 at 11:55am.
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Old Mon May 07, 2018, 12:04pm
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Sounds like a push on the offense. If it looks like he targeted and "lowered" the shoulder, and depending the severity of the contact, may also be a flagrant and an ejection.

I would not, personally, go with intentional here.
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Old Mon May 07, 2018, 12:40pm
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So I am not crazy when looking at the list of personal technical that his doesnt match unless its a flagarant.

The guy is coming up the court. Passes over mid court passes the arc then sends the ball to the corner. Looks up see the defender slowly approaching 5-7 feet away. Take 2 long steps preps for a tackle where he noticeable drops his center of gravity and targets his chest sending the kid flying backwards to the floor.

If I see the offensive player not aware or unable to avoid the defender I might have a pass and crash team control foul.

If I have had some issues with these two and I think one kid wants to teach the other a lesson by shoulder dropping a tackle into the player I might go Flagarant.

I cant go normal technical right. It is clearly not a basketball ball player to drop some chest/shoulder and bull dozer. Thats sounds like an intentioal foul.
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Old Mon May 07, 2018, 12:48pm
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I am going 4-19-3 d and disqualifying the kid too.
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Old Mon May 07, 2018, 01:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
So I am not crazy when looking at the list of personal technical that his doesnt match unless its a flagarant.

The guy is coming up the court. Passes over mid court passes the arc then sends the ball to the corner. Looks up see the defender slowly approaching 5-7 feet away. Take 2 long steps preps for a tackle where he noticeable drops his center of gravity and targets his chest sending the kid flying backwards to the floor.

If I see the offensive player not aware or unable to avoid the defender I might have a pass and crash team control foul.

If I have had some issues with these two and I think one kid wants to teach the other a lesson by shoulder dropping a tackle into the player I might go Flagarant.

I cant go normal technical right. It is clearly not a basketball ball player to drop some chest/shoulder and bull dozer. Thats sounds like an intentioal foul.
What is "flagarant"?

You can't go with a technical foul, period. Any foul committed on an opponent that involves contact while the ball is live is a personal foul, by definition. Assessing a T here like your partner did is misapplying a rule, and justifying it is just making s*it up.

All fouls are either personal or technical.
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Old Mon May 07, 2018, 01:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
So I am not crazy when looking at the list of personal technical that his doesnt match unless its a flagarant.

The guy is coming up the court. Passes over mid court passes the arc then sends the ball to the corner. Looks up see the defender slowly approaching 5-7 feet away. Take 2 long steps preps for a tackle where he noticeable drops his center of gravity and targets his chest sending the kid flying backwards to the floor.

If I see the offensive player not aware or unable to avoid the defender I might have a pass and crash team control foul.

If I have had some issues with these two and I think one kid wants to teach the other a lesson by shoulder dropping a tackle into the player I might go Flagarant.

I cant go normal technical right. It is clearly not a basketball ball player to drop some chest/shoulder and bull dozer. Thats sounds like an intentioal foul.
Contact during a live ball is never a technical under NFHS rules. Your choices are:

- nothing
- Team Control foul
- Intentional Personal foul
- Flagrant Personal foul

You have been around too long to be even considering a technical foul for this play.
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Old Tue May 08, 2018, 02:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond View Post
Contact during a live ball is never a technical under NFHS rules. Your choices are:

- nothing
- Team Control foul
- Intentional Personal foul
- Flagrant Personal foul

You have been around too long to be even considering a technical foul for this play.
This wasn't my play it was a friends. 99% of referees dont even have an idea of their proper options because this play happens 1 in 1000 games. Then it takes time to see it and apply the rules. I was pretty sure the answer yet I wanted to double check here. So I didnt make it more clear I was here to discuss and help people learn. I am glad you feel like you know me and know what I should and should not be asking. Thats awsome!
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Old Tue May 08, 2018, 02:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
This wasn't my play it was a friends. 99% of referees dont even have an idea of their proper options because this play happens 1 in 1000 games. Then it takes time to see it and apply the rules. I was pretty sure the answer yet I wanted to double check here. So I didnt make it more clear I was here to discuss and help people learn. I am glad you feel like you know me and know what I should and should not be asking. Thats awsome!
I assumed that after 6 years on this site you've seen a plethora of posts that have stated that live ball contact is a personal foul of some type, and never a technical foul.

Having that knowledge means that when an unusual play happens involving live ball contact, an official already knows his options. It doesn't matter if they've seen the play before or not.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue May 08, 2018, 02:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigT View Post
This wasn't my play it was a friends. 99% of referees dont even have an idea of their proper options because this play happens 1 in 1000 games. Then it takes time to see it and apply the rules. I was pretty sure the answer yet I wanted to double check here. So I didnt make it more clear I was here to discuss and help people learn. I am glad you feel like you know me and know what I should and should not be asking. Thats awsome!
Iíve seen a bunch of pass and crash plays, some severe that I considered upgrading beyond a common foul. Never once did I consider a technical foul.
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