Video Request: Kentucky vs. Kansas State (Sweet Sixteen)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

Cause the book variant looks weak and indecisive?

I can't disagree with you regarding the behind the head signal.

We've got more than just a few guys who use the team control foul "punch" for a player control foul (especially as a preliminary signal). It certainly looks strong and decisive (certainly stronger and more decisive than the behind the head signal).

Why don't the powers that be (NFHS or IAABO) change to this signal? I know the definitions of a player control foul and a team control foul are not 100% exactly the same (airborne shooter), but that can't be the only reason why we keep the antiquated behind the head signal.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. was using the behind the head signal when there were peach baskets, and laced basket balls (two words).

[Rich]

I still remember the book signal as taught to me 30+ years ago.

Fist up to stop clock. Same hand behind head. Same hand pointing towards the opponent goal. 1-2-3.

I have never done it once in a game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

Fist up to stop clock. Same hand behind head. Same hand pointing towards the opponent goal.

Were you taught to verbalize, "Charge", or "Player control"?

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I can't disagree with you regarding the behind the head signal.

We've got more than just a few guys who use the team control foul "punch" for a player control foul (especially as a preliminary signal). It certainly looks strong and decisive (certainly stronger and more decisive than the behind the head signal).

Why don't the powers that be (NFHS or IAABO) change to this signal? I know the definitions of a player control foul and a team control foul are not 100% exactly the same (airborne shooter), but that can't be the only reason why we keep the antiquated behind the head signal.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. was using the behind the head signal when there were peach baskets, and laced basket balls (two words).

For my player control foul signal, I stop the clock with a raised fist in the direction that play came from, I put the other hand behind my head, and I punch forward with the hand that stopped the clock. While I do this, I slide forward with the foot on the same side as the hand that punches forward. Thus, I combine the book signal with the punch used for a team control foul and the direction that play will go. I also say "player control (foul)", and will give a supplementary signal if needed (player with the ball wards off an opponent). For my "score the goal" signal, I use a fist (or open hand, if the shot in question is a last second shot), drop the hand to about waist level, and show the appropriate number of fingers (or the number of fingers followed by the three point attempt made signal, if a three-point shot). I do not use the downward punch for the "score the goal" signal.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

... say "player control" ...

I also state "Player control", one of the few who does so, most others state, "Charge" (even for the rare player control foul that is not a charge, for example a one hand push).

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I also state "Player control", one of the few who does so, most others state, "Charge" (even for the rare player control foul that is not a charge, for example a one hand push).

I don't think I say ANYTHING. Punch it and report it.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't think I say ANYTHING. Punch it and report it.

Agreed. Sometimes I think officials try and say too much. I let my signals do most of my talking. To each his own, I guess.

And I also punch on PC fouls at the spot and give the "hand behind the head" at the table. I would never give that weak signal as my prelim.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't think I say ANYTHING. Punch it and report it.

Unless your state uses a different standard for high school games, such as GA using women's college mechanics, the NFHS mechanics manual requires officials to give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, verbally inform the offender, indicate the outcome (shots or designated spot throw in), and only then proceed to the reporting area.

Because the manual requires me to verbally inform the offender, I say the offender's color and number, and the type of foul. Afterwards, I point at the spot or show fingers for the number of shots, and then proceed to the reporting area.

Is there any difference in the CCA men's or women's manual for foul reporting procedures? Unless it is not required to inform the offender, I would continue to do so in NCAA games, if and when I reach that level.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Unless your state uses a different standard for high school games, such as GA using women's college mechanics, the NFHS mechanics manual requires officials to give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, verbally inform the offender, indicate the outcome (shots or designated spot throw in), and only then proceed to the reporting area.



Because the manual requires me to verbally inform the offender, I say the offender's color and number, and the type of foul. Afterwards, I point at the spot or show fingers for the number of shots, and then proceed to the reporting area.



Is there any difference in the CCA men's or women's manual for foul reporting procedures? Unless it is not required to inform the offender, I would continue to do so in NCAA games, if and when I reach that level.

Are you serious? Or are you trolling us?


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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich

Are you serious? Or are you trolling us?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Could be both.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Rich

Are you serious? Or are you trolling us?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

I was seriously asking a question. I haven't done any college games, so I'm trying to understand if foul reporting procedures are different for college than for high school, both according to the CCA manuals and how they are actually done in practice. If they are, I will follow what is written in the appropriate CCA manual when I go to college tryout camps. If not, I will default to NFHS SOP.

AFAIK, in my games in DC and MD, no one told me that I should not follow the reporting procedure in the NFHS manual, because both Board 12 and MBOA use the NFHS manual as a basis for their mechanics.

I don't understand why JRutledge and other users believe that I am trying to insult them. I am trying to learn by sharing my experiences and asking questions about things that I may not understand. I do not want to have to say this on a public forum, but I will. I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person. I also may understand things literally, and may not understand unwritten rules, or deviations from written rules. Asperger's Syndrome is not without its strengths: I am a highly logical thinker, I pay attention to details, I am persistent in pursuing my interests (officiating is one of them), and I can remember many relevant facts. With proper support, I might be able to become "The Rule Guy (TM)" on a varsity, collegiate, or professional crew .

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Unless your state uses a different standard for high school games, such as GA using women's college mechanics, the NFHS mechanics manual requires officials to give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, verbally inform the offender, indicate the outcome (shots or designated spot throw in), and only then proceed to the reporting area.

Because the manual requires me to verbally inform the offender, I say the offender's color and number, and the type of foul. Afterwards, I point at the spot or show fingers for the number of shots, and then proceed to the reporting area.

Is there any difference in the CCA men's or women's manual for foul reporting procedures? Unless it is not required to inform the offender, I would continue to do so in NCAA games, if and when I reach that level.

Are they going to send a stern letter home to their mother if they don't?

Honestly, who gives shit what the NF thinks on this? I don't and I do not work for the NF and my state has never asked us to do any such thing either way. This is a personal officiating issue which you can say things based on who you are with. And I have never been in any college camp (with people that sit on the NCAA Committee) and said a single word to any such official about what they verbally say one way or another.

You clearly need to get some more experience before you make such statements. Three years of JV ball is not doing you very well at this point. You need to go to camps completely outside of your state before you start telling us what should or should not be done.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Unless your state uses a different standard for high school games, such as GA using women's college mechanics, the NFHS mechanics manual requires officials to give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, verbally inform the offender, indicate the outcome (shots or designated spot throw in), and only then proceed to the reporting area.

Because the manual requires me to verbally inform the offender, I say the offender's color and number, and the type of foul. Afterwards, I point at the spot or show fingers for the number of shots, and then proceed to the reporting area.

Is there any difference in the CCA men's or women's manual for foul reporting procedures? Unless it is not required to inform the offender, I would continue to do so in NCAA games, if and when I reach that level.

Water through the nose.

I would LOVE to hear the feedback the clinicians give you when you go to a college camp and give a prelim on every foul.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Water through the nose.

I would LOVE to hear the feedback the clinicians give you when you go to a college camp and give a prelim on every foul.

And stand there and call out the color and number of the fouler, too.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't think I say ANYTHING.

By IAABO mechanics (used by a very small percentage of Forum members), Rich is 100% correct. We never have to verbalize what type of foul at the preliminary, just the proper signal is required. All we have to verbalize for the preliminary is the color, and number, of the fouler. Maybe NFHS mechanics dictate the same?

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Every official develops their own style, quirks, habits, etc.

For some reason I got into a habit of stating "Player control", or "Team control", at the preliminary, don't know why (maybe, as a young lad, I was trying to emulate a highly respected official who did likewise). I guess that it's become my "style". Maybe that's why I haven't gotten any state finals yet? Yeah, that's the reason, for sure. Absolutely, that's gotta be the only reason.

Or maybe it's because I put two fists on my hips at the preliminary for blocking fouls. At least I fix it by putting two open hands on my hips when I report the foul to the table, so that can't be why I haven't gotten a final yet? I only half screw up on those. Half screwing up is better than totally screwing up? Right? I fix it at the table, so it can't be that bad? Right?