Video Request: Kentucky vs. Kansas State (Sweet Sixteen)

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't think I say ANYTHING. Punch it and report it.

Unless your state uses a different standard for high school games, such as GA using women's college mechanics, the NFHS mechanics manual requires officials to give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, verbally inform the offender, indicate the outcome (shots or designated spot throw in), and only then proceed to the reporting area.

Because the manual requires me to verbally inform the offender, I say the offender's color and number, and the type of foul. Afterwards, I point at the spot or show fingers for the number of shots, and then proceed to the reporting area.

Is there any difference in the CCA men's or women's manual for foul reporting procedures? Unless it is not required to inform the offender, I would continue to do so in NCAA games, if and when I reach that level.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Unless your state uses a different standard for high school games, such as GA using women's college mechanics, the NFHS mechanics manual requires officials to give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, verbally inform the offender, indicate the outcome (shots or designated spot throw in), and only then proceed to the reporting area.



Because the manual requires me to verbally inform the offender, I say the offender's color and number, and the type of foul. Afterwards, I point at the spot or show fingers for the number of shots, and then proceed to the reporting area.



Is there any difference in the CCA men's or women's manual for foul reporting procedures? Unless it is not required to inform the offender, I would continue to do so in NCAA games, if and when I reach that level.

Are you serious? Or are you trolling us?


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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Rich

Are you serious? Or are you trolling us?


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Could be both.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Rich

Are you serious? Or are you trolling us?


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I was seriously asking a question. I haven't done any college games, so I'm trying to understand if foul reporting procedures are different for college than for high school, both according to the CCA manuals and how they are actually done in practice. If they are, I will follow what is written in the appropriate CCA manual when I go to college tryout camps. If not, I will default to NFHS SOP.

AFAIK, in my games in DC and MD, no one told me that I should not follow the reporting procedure in the NFHS manual, because both Board 12 and MBOA use the NFHS manual as a basis for their mechanics.

I don't understand why JRutledge and other users believe that I am trying to insult them. I am trying to learn by sharing my experiences and asking questions about things that I may not understand. I do not want to have to say this on a public forum, but I will. I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person. I also may understand things literally, and may not understand unwritten rules, or deviations from written rules. Asperger's Syndrome is not without its strengths: I am a highly logical thinker, I pay attention to details, I am persistent in pursuing my interests (officiating is one of them), and I can remember many relevant facts. With proper support, I might be able to become "The Rule Guy (TM)" on a varsity, collegiate, or professional crew .

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person. I also may understand things literally, and may not understand unwritten rules, or deviations from written rules. Asperger's Syndrome is not without its strengths: I am a highly logical thinker, I pay attention to details, I am persistent in pursuing my interests (officiating is one of them), and I can remember many relevant facts. With proper support, I might be able to become "The Rule Guy (TM)" on a varsity, collegiate, or professional crew .

ilyazhito, suddenly your perspective and approach make a lot more sense. I apologize for being ignorant.

The pokes notwithstanding, please keep posting. You might get a little grief from time to time, but your posts are very accurate. Almost uncomfortably literal, that’s all.

Every official develops their own style, quirks, habits, etc. I’m sure you’ll do that, too, in time. In fact your style might be the style of no style, which is in and of itself a style. Don’t be afraid to be yourself. At the end of the day, if you can call a game and command a court, you’ll advance on merit.



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[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I was seriously asking a question. I haven't done any college games, so I'm trying to understand if foul reporting procedures are different for college than for high school,

Of course they are.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I was seriously asking a question. I haven't done any college games, so I'm trying to understand if foul reporting procedures are different for college than for high school, both according to the CCA manuals and how they are actually done in practice. If they are, I will follow what is written in the appropriate CCA manual when I go to college tryout camps. If not, I will default to NFHS SOP.

AFAIK, in my games in DC and MD, no one told me that I should not follow the reporting procedure in the NFHS manual, because both Board 12 and MBOA use the NFHS manual as a basis for their mechanics.

I don't understand why JRutledge and other users believe that I am trying to insult them. I am trying to learn by sharing my experiences and asking questions about things that I may not understand. I do not want to have to say this on a public forum, but I will. I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person. I also may understand things literally, and may not understand unwritten rules, or deviations from written rules. Asperger's Syndrome is not without its strengths: I am a highly logical thinker, I pay attention to details, I am persistent in pursuing my interests (officiating is one of them), and I can remember many relevant facts. With proper support, I might be able to become "The Rule Guy (TM)" on a varsity, collegiate, or professional crew .

No one is insulted by you and secondly, none of that has to do with the response you are getting. The response is because you make remarks as if you know better than those that have been doing this longer than you. Sorry, but even with all of that you stated, you still have not done varsity, college or any other level. So the ideas you have are interesting, but that does not make the accurate. The NF, for example, does not make states follow their mechanics on any level. It is used to have some standardization but the NF does not expect states to follow things or do not get even upset if states do something totally different. But you might not know that because you have not been officiating very long or on this site which these things get talked about often. So if someone says something verbally or not, does it really matter? And the person you said something smart to actually assigns officials. If he does not care, I doubt anyone else gives a darn what verbal words they use on a specific call. Not insulted, just think someone that has admitted to only worked three year and no regular varsity might want to listen to high school, college, and high-level playoff officials. Your background is interesting, but it does not excuse the lack of perspective you have shown in this discussion.

Peace

[bucky]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person.

Aspies are awesome, no doubt about it. Tony Attwood should be an official. He would be very understanding of......everyone.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

.... I have Asperger's Syndrome, a disorder on the autism spectrum, which makes it more difficult for me to understand people than it may be for a normal person. I also may understand things literally, and may not understand unwritten rules, or deviations from written rules. Asperger's Syndrome is not without its strengths: I am a highly logical thinker, I pay attention to details, I am persistent in pursuing my interests (officiating is one of them), and I can remember many relevant facts. With proper support, I might be able to become "The Rule Guy (TM)" on a varsity, collegiate, or professional crew .

That would explain you hyper-focus on certain subjects. I was never diagnosed, but through my son's diagnosis I realized I am on the spectrum myself. As it is a social disorder, you can learn to overcome some aspects and compensate for some aspects. You would probably be great at film study. You should devote more energy in that direction, and less on rule changes and such.

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by Raymond

That would explain you hyper-focus on certain subjects. I was never diagnosed, but through my son's diagnosis I realized I am on the spectrum myself. As it is a social disorder, you can learn to overcome some aspects and compensate for some aspects. You would probably be great at film study. You should devote more energy in that direction, and less on rule changes and such.

That is what I do. I watch the IAABO "Make the Ruling" videos that are released every week, HS/NCAA preseason training videos, Officiating Born YouTube videos, Board 12 HUDL videos, and other videos of basketball games, watching for on and off-ball calls that should be made (I pay secondary attention to mechanics, positioning, clocks, etc.). I watch baseball and football situations as well for when I am officiating those sports.

IMHO, if assigners are uncomfortable with having their officials perform practices defined by the NFHS manual, they should contact their state interpreter to ask for a different, state-specific manual, or the NFHS basketball committee, to modify the mechanics to better conform with accepted practice. If the NFHS-prescribed mechanics are confusing, I would understand why high school officials might go off-script for the situations that lead to confusion.

How often do NCAA officials deviate from CCA Manual practices? Is it similar to what senior HS officials do, or less? Is it because the CCA Manuals are written in a way that better conforms to practice than the NFHS Manual? AFAiK, the CCA manuals are written in a way that would make it easier to put in practice than the NFHS one would be, but I would need confirmation from college officials on both sides.

Back to the OP, make sure that your player control and "score the goal" signals are different! That will help you avoid the hot water that the official in the OP got into with the coaches at that game.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That is what I do. I watch the IAABO "Make the Ruling" videos that are released every week, HS/NCAA preseason training videos, Officiating Born YouTube videos, Board 12 HUDL videos, and other videos of basketball games, watching for on and off-ball calls that should be made (I pay secondary attention to mechanics, positioning, clocks, etc.). I watch baseball and football situations as well for when I am officiating those sports.

IMHO, if assigners are uncomfortable with having their officials perform practices defined by the NFHS manual, they should contact their state interpreter to ask for a different, state-specific manual, or the NFHS basketball committee, to modify the mechanics to better conform with accepted practice. If the NFHS-prescribed mechanics are confusing, I would understand why high school officials might go off-script for the situations that lead to confusion.

How often do NCAA officials deviate from CCA Manual practices? Is it similar to what senior HS officials do, or less? Is it because the CCA Manuals are written in a way that better conforms to practice than the NFHS Manual? AFAiK, the CCA manuals are written in a way that would make it easier to put in practice than the NFHS one would be, but I would need confirmation from college officials on both sides.

Back to the OP, make sure that your player control and "score the goal" signals are different! That will help you avoid the hot water that the official in the OP got into with the coaches at that game.

One thing you're going to have to work on, I can already tell, is the ability to adjust to different supervisors. You have to know when supervisors want you to do everything by the book, and you have to know which supervisors just want you to get plays right. If you have to choose one to make a priority as you advance, it's getting plays right. You can know how the manual says to do things, but recognize when it's acceptable or expected to deviate a little bit.

Start studying positioning. Especially from the trail. You want to be sideline oriented. I would review NBA plays from their website or plays specifically from Al Battista.

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[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

IMHO, if assigners are uncomfortable with having their officials perform practices defined by the NFHS manual, they should contact their state interpreter to ask for a different, state-specific manual, or the NFHS basketball committee, to modify the mechanics to better conform with accepted practice. If the NFHS-prescribed mechanics are confusing, I would understand why high school officials might go off-script for the situations that lead to confusion.

The NF does not regulate what states do in any sense of mechanics. That is up to the state, association or assignor. And unless you are in a state that really cares that much about specifics of the book, chances are there are always going to be variations. No one needs to do anything to ask the state for anything. It is your job to know who you are working for and what is important to those that hire you.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

How often do NCAA officials deviate from CCA Manual practices? Is it similar to what senior HS officials do, or less? Is it because the CCA Manuals are written in a way that better conforms to practice than the NFHS Manual? AFAiK, the CCA manuals are written in a way that would make it easier to put in practice than the NFHS one would be, but I would need confirmation from college officials on both sides.

You have to be hired first. And that does not come by talking about it here. You have to attend someone's camp and get them to see if you have what it takes (and that is often more than what is in any book) and do what is stated by that supervisor. No one here is going to know the answer to this for you unless they work specifically for someone you are trying to get hired by. And even that might not be something clearly stated if you attend a camp or get hired. What you need to do is control the things you can control and listen to those that have been around and know the system. There is no one size fits all model. The CCA manual is hardly discussed at any camp I attend and most of what is told are, "tricks of the trade" type things to help you get plays right and be a good partner. Rarely have I ever had this much debate about what is in the Manual, because no one honestly cares what the Manual says about something that specific. The CCA Manual IMO is more for you to know and use in your game, but no one is going around brow-beating you with that information or specifics.

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Back to the OP, make sure that your player control and "score the goal" signals are different! That will help you avoid the hot water that the official in the OP got into with the coaches at that game.

Hot water? The coach yelled about a call he did not understand, likely because he does not know the rule. I think the official was fine, even if it was kind of confusing. And I doubt anyone could hear him anyway in that kind of game. There were not 5 people in the gym, there were thousands.

Peace

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Unless your state uses a different standard for high school games, such as GA using women's college mechanics, the NFHS mechanics manual requires officials to give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, verbally inform the offender, indicate the outcome (shots or designated spot throw in), and only then proceed to the reporting area.

Because the manual requires me to verbally inform the offender, I say the offender's color and number, and the type of foul. Afterwards, I point at the spot or show fingers for the number of shots, and then proceed to the reporting area.

Is there any difference in the CCA men's or women's manual for foul reporting procedures? Unless it is not required to inform the offender, I would continue to do so in NCAA games, if and when I reach that level.

Are they going to send a stern letter home to their mother if they don't?

Honestly, who gives shit what the NF thinks on this? I don't and I do not work for the NF and my state has never asked us to do any such thing either way. This is a personal officiating issue which you can say things based on who you are with. And I have never been in any college camp (with people that sit on the NCAA Committee) and said a single word to any such official about what they verbally say one way or another.

You clearly need to get some more experience before you make such statements. Three years of JV ball is not doing you very well at this point. You need to go to camps completely outside of your state before you start telling us what should or should not be done.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Unless your state uses a different standard for high school games, such as GA using women's college mechanics, the NFHS mechanics manual requires officials to give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, verbally inform the offender, indicate the outcome (shots or designated spot throw in), and only then proceed to the reporting area.

Because the manual requires me to verbally inform the offender, I say the offender's color and number, and the type of foul. Afterwards, I point at the spot or show fingers for the number of shots, and then proceed to the reporting area.

Is there any difference in the CCA men's or women's manual for foul reporting procedures? Unless it is not required to inform the offender, I would continue to do so in NCAA games, if and when I reach that level.

Water through the nose.

I would LOVE to hear the feedback the clinicians give you when you go to a college camp and give a prelim on every foul.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Water through the nose.

I would LOVE to hear the feedback the clinicians give you when you go to a college camp and give a prelim on every foul.

And stand there and call out the color and number of the fouler, too.