Video Request: Kentucky vs. Kansas State (Sweet Sixteen)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

The hand is depicted in the rule book in the signals chart. Not sure how to describe it but it is not a fist, lol.

I am aware of that. I don't think I know anyone who's signal looks like that.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I am aware of that. I don't think I know anyone who's signal looks like that.

The dainty hands on the hips for a block would elicit the same reaction with me as someone using this "score the goal" signal.


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[Rich]

A few years ago I made a call that got confused as a charge when I was actually counting the basket.

Since then, it's two fingers down and a lot less emphasis. No point to banging it home like a madman.


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[Kansas Ref]

Ive seen a ref in our area perform this sequence of motions and he looked like a clown to everyone at the game, many players from both teams rolled their eyes in utter disgust and I was embarrased by it: 1. normal fist up and whistle movements upon contact on shooter but, then 2. a punch and another whistle when the try was successful, then 3. while hopping on one foot another whislting yet a third time. I asked why he did that, it's not needed, hes said I' have been officiating for 25 years its how its done, you gotta sell it''.

[Rich]

Marking someone down for giving an incorrect blocking signal means they are using that as an excuse, nothing more.


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[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Rich

Marking someone down for giving an incorrect blocking signal means they are using that as an excuse, nothing more.

Well how else are you supposed to engineer your staff roster the way you want it to look?

I suppose you could also apply a controversial and legally tenuous residency requirement. Wait.....I’m being told.....


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[Rich]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Well how else are you supposed to engineer your staff roster the way you want it to look?

I suppose you could also apply a controversial and legally tenuous residency requirement. Wait.....I’m being told.....


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I've been through some weird things in 31 years. I've been in my current location for 16 of them now, but I hit 5 states in less than 10 years and it's amazing the gyrations some groups will go through to protect their own.

As someone who hires for schools, I don't care if an official moves into my area tomorrow. I want people who can work, nothing more. And I've found that some officials who have gotten some big time assignments (even state finals) aren't people I want working for me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

... I don't care if an official moves into my area tomorrow. I want people who can work, nothing more.

That's why, here in my little corner of Connecticut, we've moved from years of experience as a requirement to move up to varsity assignments, to observations, observations that can be done during preseason scrimmages, to properly assign an official who has moved into our area, to a varsity schedule, if he's skilled enough. If he has an IAABO background, he doesn't even have to be observed, he just keeps the status he had with his previous IAABO board.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That's why, here in my little corner of Connecticut, we've moved from years of experience as a requirement to move up to varsity assignments, to observations, observations that can be done during preseason scrimmages, to properly assign an official who has moved into our area, to a varsity schedule, if he's skilled enough. If he has an IAABO background, he doesn't even have to be observed, he just keeps the status he had with his previous IAABO board.

I moved to Wisconsin and gave an assigner a link to a YouTube channel that featured a game I worked the previous year. That was enough to get a 25-game varsity schedule my first season.

Beat that, IAABO people.

BM, I admire your local board’s efforts to be more welcoming, but until you drop the grade sheets and become more subjective, my guess is that new guys will continue to be on the outside looking in with respect to their schedules. How many college evaluators do you see at camps with grade sheets? They know who can work just by watching them for five minutes.

Protectionism is why I’m probably not going to work while I live in Rhode Island next year. Cutting through the red tape in places where it’s thick is exhausting.



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[crosscountry55]

Hypothetical: Imagine ilyazhito with his strict mechanics PLUS Nevadaref with his strict rules interpretations. Now imagine them together on the floor working a 2-person game.

I’d pay to see it. The game would be an afterthought.


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[ilyazhito]

That would be cool! Add Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. as the third official, and that would be perfect! ROFL!

[ODog]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Hypothetical: Imagine ilyazhito with his strict mechanics PLUS Nevadaref with his strict rules interpretations. Now imagine them together on the floor working a 2-person game.

I’d pay to see it. The game would be an afterthought.

Can we please add BillyMac as the third at least?! Even though Conn. doesn't use 3-man until there are 8 teams left

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by ODog

Can we please add BillyMac as the third at least?! Even though Conn. doesn't use 3-man until there are 8 teams left

That's priceless! What high school game would have us together? The McDonald's All-American Game ?

To SCOfficial, why is there a bias against officials who officiate using proper procedures at tryout camps? Aren't all officials rookies at one time, or another (whether to HS, to varsity, to playoffs, college, etc.)? What if an official does everything required of him by the book, and shows good game management and judgement in playcalling? Will evaluators pass over him in favor of someone who might look less official?

To bobjenkins, how exactly are foul reporting procedures different in college vs. high school? I know that the CCA men's manual has officials switching opposite the table, and that the CCA women's manual has officials switching tableside, and these switches can actually be seen in games.

About the OP, if the official uses the recommended signal for a player control foul, no confusion ensues. Any other takes on the OP?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

That's priceless! What high school game would have us together? The McDonald's All-American Game ?

To SCOfficial, why is there a bias against officials who officiate using proper procedures at tryout camps? Aren't all officials rookies at one time, or another (whether to HS, to varsity, to playoffs, college, etc.)? What if an official does everything required of him by the book, and shows good game management and judgement in playcalling? Will evaluators pass over him in favor of someone who might look less official?

To bobjenkins, how exactly are foul reporting procedures different in college vs. high school? I know that the CCA men's manual has officials switching opposite the table, and that the CCA women's manual has officials switching tableside, and these switches can actually be seen in games.

About the OP, if the official uses the recommended signal for a player control foul, no confusion ensues. Any other takes on the OP?

I'm not SCOfficial, but the book (rule, case, mechanics) doesn't always say exactly what it means or mean exactly what it says. You (especially at your experience level) need to more follow the "when in Rome" philosophy -- but I recognize that this can be tough because you (especially at your experience level) don't always know when someone else is doing something "wrong" or they are doing it "right, but not by the written book."

For foul reporting / mechanics -- too many to list -- when to switch, when to give a preliminary (fairly rare in NCAAW, at least), when to bird-dog, where to report, whether to come to a stop, etc.

Look --it's good to have goals. And the goal of becoming an NCAA and / or NBA official is good. But (1), it's a hard goal to achieve -- so have a back-up plan.

But (2) , that's a long-term goal, and the specifics of everything you've been asking about will change by the time you are ready to begin that process (probably at least six years, I would guess). So, you should stop focusing on all the little details and instead work on shorter-term goals like getting a full Frosh or Soph or JV schedule and working as many games as you can to get experience. And, that kind of goal is extremely dependent on your area -- so you should ask local officials and not a general group from around the country. If you do this, your goal of NCAA/NBA will be more likely -- if you don't do this, it will be impossible.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

To SCOfficial, why is there a bias against officials who officiate using proper procedures at tryout camps? Aren't all officials rookies at one time, or another (whether to HS, to varsity, to playoffs, college, etc.)? What if an official does everything required of him by the book, and shows good game management and judgement in playcalling? Will evaluators pass over him in favor of someone who might look less official?

There is a difference between looking like an official who just started his career and an official who is a rookie to the college scene. Doing all that spot of the foul stuff will make you look like the former; you don't want to go to a camp looking like you're a robot trying to show off that you do everything "by the book." It is goofy and not the norm, whether it's in the manual or not.

And "proper procedures" in the manual are often contradictory to "proper procedures" for assigners or just what accepted practices are. Whether or not you think that's right is a different discussion.

Ask yourself this question: how often do you see college officials, or NBA officials, or high-level high school officials, give a preliminary on anything other than a block/charge play or an offensive (PC/TC) foul? How often do you see those officials verbally say the color and number on every foul call? Unless you live in a state where the high school powers-that-be are super purist and anal about being by the book, the answer should be "very rarely." If you want to make it to the next level, you should have a desire to emulate officials that are at that respective level-and you should start by dropping the "I only care about doing everything by the book" attitude.