Indisputable nonsense

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by thedewed

At least 10 really wrong calls in this game, no dog in the hunt, but in the last minute to take the cake, an out of bounds review where a Houston player gathered the ball and fell out of bounds. Absolutely no question who it was out on, WHY REVIEW? The game was painful to watch from an officiating perspective, both ways, many block/charges called the wrong way, basically everything in the book. TOO MANY WHISTLES as well, 'and ones' where you had to watch the replay to see if there was any contact whatsoever.

I had a dog in the fight. I am a huge Michigan fan. If you are surprised by 10 fouls being called are missed in a game, then you have never been an official on any level. In a 40 minute game all the out of bounds plays, potential fouls and potential violations, the ones you call and the ones you never call, that is actually rather light of a number. You realize almost every second of the game there is a potential call in basketball and you will miss some things. And from what I saw from the bar, I had little issues with many of the calls either way. It was a game that required a lot of decisions.

Originally Posted by thedewed

Call what matters. A sign of a good to great official is someone that knows how to hold the whistle, see the entire play, and only blow the whistle when it creates an advantage. Another way they added to the whistle count, rebounding fouls where the 'fouled' team got the rebound with no interruption of flow. DON'T BLOW THE WHISTLE.

You obviously have not watched many NCAA videos lately. If you had, then you would not have this position if you were at all knowledgable. Many of the calls that were made that I saw were what was asked of the officials to call from beginning to the end of the game that also might not directly influence the play. A lot of unnecessary contact was taking place that have been on NCAA In-Season Training tapes all season and seasons before.

Originally Posted by thedewed

Rant over. NBA seems to have it figured out far better than the NCAA. I guess it's because they are full-time and get paid more? It is a huge gap.

You also have a much smaller staff, fewer supervisors and fewer teams. And you have more of a centralized philosophy. Even in replay not every conference handled those situations the same.

Originally Posted by thedewed

I wrote this before finishing the game, the same official that had to review whether the ball was out of bounds on a player that possessed it and fell out of bounds passed on a clear travel on the last play of the game before the winning 3. I mean clear as day travel, right in front of him. Nice shot though.

First of all, this is what the fans wanted. We have HD video now where every little touch can be seen. So now if someone is going home and a call shows a slight touch, then the officials feel compelled to review. If they do not review the sitaution and it changed the game then people like you would be on social media telling them "How in the world did they not review that play?" The rule says that in the last 2 minutes they can review out of bounds plays, so they review them when they are close. I do not know what you are surprised by. You are the kind of people that got us here. You are talking about plays that were wrong as you had the opportunity for video replay or see the play from multiple angles.

I was just at the State Finals in Illinois watching the game from the stands. I sit with nothing but officials for the most part. Every call is talked about, good bad or ugly. Every situation is discussed. Then we see the video we have an opinion. Then we talk to the actual official and that changes the perspective as well. There were many calls that it made more sense when the official in question told us what they saw or why they did not call or called something. I doubt in anyone's case we actually talked to the official about any particular call in detail.

And once again, none of us here can control anything with the NCAA system. All it is at the end of the day is noise. We might feed into it for a little while, but we do not change it. We are mostly here to figure out how to deal with plays and rules and situations from an officiating standpoint. We do not write, create or dictate what rules are made or changed to. Sorry, you will have to complain about that to someone else if you want it to go anywhere. And something tells me they will not care to listen either. They hardly listen to media people, what the hell makes you think they are going to listen to someone that has no direct connection to the game or those rules commitees?

Peace

[thedewed]

I understand there are typically more than 10 misses, but I'm talking about really glaring, obvious misses. I thought both the UM blocks called pretty close together in the first half, one in transition, and I think both basically in front of their bench, were wrong, should have been charges. I thought there were also a lot of unnecessary whistles both ways. I understand the emphasis from the overseers has gone that way, but I think officials have taken it too far, and players, fans, and coaches alike would prefer that officials got the stuff that mattered, and used discretion elsewhere. For example, if a rebounder gets a rebound, and somebody bumps him on the way down, but he comes down cleanly and it doesn't detract from anything he would immediately do, don't blow the whistle. Most NCAA officials these days do, including several in that game.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I had a dog in the fight. I am a huge Michigan fan. If you are surprised by 10 fouls being called are missed in a game, then you have never been an official on any level. In a 40 minute game all the out of bounds plays, potential fouls and potential violations, the ones you call and the ones you never call, that is actually rather light of a number. You realize almost every second of the game there is a potential call in basketball and you will miss some things. And from what I saw from the bar, I had little issues with many of the calls either way. It was a game that required a lot of decisions.



You obviously have not watched many NCAA videos lately. If you had, then you would not have this position if you were at all knowledgable. Many of the calls that were made that I saw were what was asked of the officials to call from beginning to the end of the game that also might not directly influence the play. A lot of unnecessary contact was taking place that have been on NCAA In-Season Training tapes all season and seasons before.



You also have a much smaller staff, fewer supervisors and fewer teams. And you have more of a centralized philosophy. Even in replay not every conference handled those situations the same.



First of all, this is what the fans wanted. We have HD video now where every little touch can be seen. So now if someone is going home and a call shows a slight touch, then the officials feel compelled to review. If they do not review the sitaution and it changed the game then people like you would be on social media telling them "How in the world did they not review that play?" The rule says that in the last 2 minutes they can review out of bounds plays, so they review them when they are close. I do not know what you are surprised by. You are the kind of people that got us here. You are talking about plays that were wrong as you had the opportunity for video replay or see the play from multiple angles.

I was just at the State Finals in Illinois watching the game from the stands. I sit with nothing but officials for the most part. Every call is talked about, good bad or ugly. Every situation is discussed. Then we see the video we have an opinion. Then we talk to the actual official and that changes the perspective as well. There were many calls that it made more sense when the official in question told us what they saw or why they did not call or called something. I doubt in anyone's case we actually talked to the official about any particular call in detail.

And once again, none of us here can control anything with the NCAA system. All it is at the end of the day is noise. We might feed into it for a little while, but we do not change it. We are mostly here to figure out how to deal with plays and rules and situations from an officiating standpoint. We do not write, create or dictate what rules are made or changed to. Sorry, you will have to complain about that to someone else if you want it to go anywhere. And something tells me they will not care to listen either. They hardly listen to media people, what the hell makes you think they are going to listen to someone that has no direct connection to the game or those rules commitees?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by thedewed

... if a rebounder gets a rebound, and somebody bumps him on the way down, but he comes down cleanly and it doesn't detract from anything he would immediately do, don't blow the whistle.

In my high school game, I call that incidental contact, and I get really pissed at myself when I occasionally sound an impatient whistle on the play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In my high school game, I call that incidental contact, ...

Most competent officials HS varsity and above do the same thing.

It's nonsense that most NCAA officials call that a foul.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Most competent officials HS varsity and above do the same thing.

It's nonsense that most NCAA officials call that a foul.

Because they have to. They can't pass on contact, then it goes OOB and go back and award a foul. So if there is any doubt that possession won't be maintained (FOUL). Especially with the OOB video review. Nothing worse than seeing the contact, that was passed, and therefore the ball goes OOB. When before we would just give it to the team that "deserved" it due to the pass, now that can't be done.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by deecee

When before we would just give it to the team that "deserved" it due to the pass, now that can't be done.

And people appreciated it when we did that! I can remember several times when a player was probably fouled, but I let it go and then it went out of bounds. I gave it to the team that had been "fouled". The defensive coach immediately says, "that went off them!" And I could say, "it was either that or I have to give them one-and-one". And the coach would invariably say, "ok, thanks".

Even at the D3 level, we don't get that luxury anymore because every team records ever game, and the tape goes to an assignor.

[Rich]

I don't own this forum, but I care about it a lot.

What annoys me are the people who only show up this time of the year to bitch about the officials. Those of us who come here almost every day know exactly who they are.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

And people appreciated it when we did that! I can remember several times when a player was probably fouled, but I let it go and then it went out of bounds. I gave it to the team that had been "fouled". ... we don't get that luxury anymore because every team records ever game ...

Ah, the good old days. With a wink, and a nod, we used to do this all the time.

Now, on the high school level, when every grandmother has a smart phone to record the game, this is a tool that we can no longer use. I haven't done this in many years.

It was so easy back then. Before, easy decision, out of bounds, ball to the team that was "fouled", everybody's happy. Now, was the contact incidental, or a foul? Incidental, the last team to touch the ball doesn't get the throwin. Now I've got coaches yapping at me for either the foul/no foul call, and/or, the out of bounds call.

Those were the days my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
for we were young and sure to have our way.
(Mary Hopkin, 1968)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by thedewed

I understand there are typically more than 10 misses, but I'm talking about really glaring, obvious misses. I thought both the UM blocks called pretty close together in the first half, one in transition, and I think both basically in front of their bench, were wrong, should have been charges. I thought there were also a lot of unnecessary whistles both ways. I understand the emphasis from the overseers has gone that way, but I think officials have taken it too far, and players, fans, and coaches alike would prefer that officials got the stuff that mattered, and used discretion elsewhere. For example, if a rebounder gets a rebound, and somebody bumps him on the way down, but he comes down cleanly and it doesn't detract from anything he would immediately do, don't blow the whistle. Most NCAA officials these days do, including several in that game.

I was at a tournament this weekend and there were calls that all of us felt differently about. If you have never been on the floor and had your call later disagreed with, then you have never officiated a single game in your life. Even some of the calls were disagreed by many different people.

Honestly, who cares. The game is over and if that is the worst things you can point out then they must have done very well IMO. And I would say that no matter who actually won the game. Again, I saw many things that were are on the many videos put out by JD Collins and the NCAA on what is a foul. You do not have to like it, but it is the case.

Peace