Indisputable nonsense

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

So another one of these threads were somebody's complaining about the rules and think somebody in here is going to change it?

It is possible, maybe not probable, but possible. I've submitted rule changes, in my case, NFHS rule changes (not NCAA), up through our IAABO chain of command (I believe that this also involves our state high school interscholastic sports governing body) all the way up to the NFHS rules committee and have been successful in getting a few of my NFHS rule changes implemented.

It was while posting here on the Forum that I noted the removal of the phrase "outside the cylinder" in the definition of goaltending (only four parameters instead of five). This made it impossible, in some cases, to differentiate goaltending from basket interference (we often ridicule nonofficials that don't know the difference). I sent the rule change (back to the original definition) up the chain of command and now the definition of goaltending has gone back to five parameters.

I've also submitted successful rule change suggestions regarding the "captain's defensive match-up" when multiple substitutes come into the game, and most recently, the clarification regarding the legal colors for compression shorts (the old rule was confusing, same color as uniform shorts, or same color as "uniform" (as the rule read at the time), which could have meant jersey, or shorts?). I suggested removing the term compression shorts (they're just short tights) from the rules since tights were now legal and already had well defined color restrictions.

It's not easy to submit such changes, there's a lot of paperwork involved. One has to submit the old rule, the new rule, a rationale for the change, and also submit any changes necessary in any, and all, related rules, penalties, and casebook plays.

I hold no particular title within my local IAABO board, I'm just a lowly "journeyman" official, but I was able to get three changes into the NFHS rulebook.

So go ahead and "think somebody in here is going to change" a NFHS rule. It is possible, I can verify that.

That being said, I know more about rocket science, or brain surgery, than I know about changing NCAA rules. Maybe changing NCAA rules is harder than playing darts with spaghetti? Maybe harder than a steel reinforced concrete wrapped diamond?

[thedewed]

I understand there are typically more than 10 misses, but I'm talking about really glaring, obvious misses. I thought both the UM blocks called pretty close together in the first half, one in transition, and I think both basically in front of their bench, were wrong, should have been charges. I thought there were also a lot of unnecessary whistles both ways. I understand the emphasis from the overseers has gone that way, but I think officials have taken it too far, and players, fans, and coaches alike would prefer that officials got the stuff that mattered, and used discretion elsewhere. For example, if a rebounder gets a rebound, and somebody bumps him on the way down, but he comes down cleanly and it doesn't detract from anything he would immediately do, don't blow the whistle. Most NCAA officials these days do, including several in that game.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I had a dog in the fight. I am a huge Michigan fan. If you are surprised by 10 fouls being called are missed in a game, then you have never been an official on any level. In a 40 minute game all the out of bounds plays, potential fouls and potential violations, the ones you call and the ones you never call, that is actually rather light of a number. You realize almost every second of the game there is a potential call in basketball and you will miss some things. And from what I saw from the bar, I had little issues with many of the calls either way. It was a game that required a lot of decisions.



You obviously have not watched many NCAA videos lately. If you had, then you would not have this position if you were at all knowledgable. Many of the calls that were made that I saw were what was asked of the officials to call from beginning to the end of the game that also might not directly influence the play. A lot of unnecessary contact was taking place that have been on NCAA In-Season Training tapes all season and seasons before.



You also have a much smaller staff, fewer supervisors and fewer teams. And you have more of a centralized philosophy. Even in replay not every conference handled those situations the same.



First of all, this is what the fans wanted. We have HD video now where every little touch can be seen. So now if someone is going home and a call shows a slight touch, then the officials feel compelled to review. If they do not review the sitaution and it changed the game then people like you would be on social media telling them "How in the world did they not review that play?" The rule says that in the last 2 minutes they can review out of bounds plays, so they review them when they are close. I do not know what you are surprised by. You are the kind of people that got us here. You are talking about plays that were wrong as you had the opportunity for video replay or see the play from multiple angles.

I was just at the State Finals in Illinois watching the game from the stands. I sit with nothing but officials for the most part. Every call is talked about, good bad or ugly. Every situation is discussed. Then we see the video we have an opinion. Then we talk to the actual official and that changes the perspective as well. There were many calls that it made more sense when the official in question told us what they saw or why they did not call or called something. I doubt in anyone's case we actually talked to the official about any particular call in detail.

And once again, none of us here can control anything with the NCAA system. All it is at the end of the day is noise. We might feed into it for a little while, but we do not change it. We are mostly here to figure out how to deal with plays and rules and situations from an officiating standpoint. We do not write, create or dictate what rules are made or changed to. Sorry, you will have to complain about that to someone else if you want it to go anywhere. And something tells me they will not care to listen either. They hardly listen to media people, what the hell makes you think they are going to listen to someone that has no direct connection to the game or those rules commitees?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by thedewed

... if a rebounder gets a rebound, and somebody bumps him on the way down, but he comes down cleanly and it doesn't detract from anything he would immediately do, don't blow the whistle.

In my high school game, I call that incidental contact, and I get really pissed at myself when I occasionally sound an impatient whistle on the play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

In my high school game, I call that incidental contact, ...

Most competent officials HS varsity and above do the same thing.

It's nonsense that most NCAA officials call that a foul.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Raymond

Most competent officials HS varsity and above do the same thing.

It's nonsense that most NCAA officials call that a foul.

Because they have to. They can't pass on contact, then it goes OOB and go back and award a foul. So if there is any doubt that possession won't be maintained (FOUL). Especially with the OOB video review. Nothing worse than seeing the contact, that was passed, and therefore the ball goes OOB. When before we would just give it to the team that "deserved" it due to the pass, now that can't be done.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by deecee

When before we would just give it to the team that "deserved" it due to the pass, now that can't be done.

And people appreciated it when we did that! I can remember several times when a player was probably fouled, but I let it go and then it went out of bounds. I gave it to the team that had been "fouled". The defensive coach immediately says, "that went off them!" And I could say, "it was either that or I have to give them one-and-one". And the coach would invariably say, "ok, thanks".

Even at the D3 level, we don't get that luxury anymore because every team records ever game, and the tape goes to an assignor.

[Rich]

I don't own this forum, but I care about it a lot.

What annoys me are the people who only show up this time of the year to bitch about the officials. Those of us who come here almost every day know exactly who they are.

[LRZ]

"What annoys me are the people who only show up this time of the year to bitch about the officials. Those of us who come here almost every day know exactly who they are."

I was just thinking the same thing.

I don't care that, in my opinion, a ref missed a call or did something I thought questionable; what I do care about is why or how that might have happened. That is, what can I learn from the discussion?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

And people appreciated it when we did that! I can remember several times when a player was probably fouled, but I let it go and then it went out of bounds. I gave it to the team that had been "fouled". ... we don't get that luxury anymore because every team records ever game ...

Ah, the good old days. With a wink, and a nod, we used to do this all the time.

Now, on the high school level, when every grandmother has a smart phone to record the game, this is a tool that we can no longer use. I haven't done this in many years.

It was so easy back then. Before, easy decision, out of bounds, ball to the team that was "fouled", everybody's happy. Now, was the contact incidental, or a foul? Incidental, the last team to touch the ball doesn't get the throwin. Now I've got coaches yapping at me for either the foul/no foul call, and/or, the out of bounds call.

Those were the days my friend
We thought they'd never end
We'd sing and dance forever and a day
We'd live the life we choose
We'd fight and never lose
for we were young and sure to have our way.
(Mary Hopkin, 1968)

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by thedewed

I understand there are typically more than 10 misses, but I'm talking about really glaring, obvious misses. I thought both the UM blocks called pretty close together in the first half, one in transition, and I think both basically in front of their bench, were wrong, should have been charges. I thought there were also a lot of unnecessary whistles both ways. I understand the emphasis from the overseers has gone that way, but I think officials have taken it too far, and players, fans, and coaches alike would prefer that officials got the stuff that mattered, and used discretion elsewhere. For example, if a rebounder gets a rebound, and somebody bumps him on the way down, but he comes down cleanly and it doesn't detract from anything he would immediately do, don't blow the whistle. Most NCAA officials these days do, including several in that game.

I was at a tournament this weekend and there were calls that all of us felt differently about. If you have never been on the floor and had your call later disagreed with, then you have never officiated a single game in your life. Even some of the calls were disagreed by many different people.

Honestly, who cares. The game is over and if that is the worst things you can point out then they must have done very well IMO. And I would say that no matter who actually won the game. Again, I saw many things that were are on the many videos put out by JD Collins and the NCAA on what is a foul. You do not have to like it, but it is the case.

Peace

[The_Rookie]

Originally Posted by Rich

I don't own this forum, but I care about it a lot.

What annoys me are the people who only show up this time of the year to bitch about the officials. Those of us who come here almost every day know exactly who they are.

As the old adage goes: Easier to tear something down then to build it!