I Hate Jump Balls ...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You are correct that this *was* the rule. You'll have to wait until MTD gets up from his nap for "proof."

Thank you. "Always listen to bob" is proof enough. Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. doesn't have to make the trip up to his cold attic library.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Jumpers A1 and B1 for jump ball to start the game. A1 taps ball, before the jump ball ends, jumper B1 catches the ball. Violation on jumper B1 for catching the ball before the jump ball ends. Team A gets the ball for a throwin closest to the violation. Team A also gets the next arrow because B1's catch was a possession, an illegal possession, but nevertheless a possession.

When a jumper catches the ball before the jump ball ends, his team loses the ball and loses the arrow.

Is this correct?

Billy:

I am arriving late to the party.

The NCAA Men's Rules Committee adopted the AP Arrow Rule first for the 1981-82 season. When the NCAA Women's Rules Committee was created for the 1983-84 season, it included the Men's AP Arrow Rule in its Rules. And the NFHS Rules Committee adopted the AP Arrow Rule starting with the 1985-86 season. The Rule and the Casebook/Approved Rulings was the same for all three Committees.

The Play (not the Ruling, that is another story that I will tell below) that you have described has been in the NFHS and NCAA Men's and Women's Casebook/Approved Rulings since the AP Procedure was adopted with the only difference is in the Casebook Play/Approved Rulings it is A1 that commits the JB Violation, not your B1. And I ill stay with your B1 committing the JB Violation.


I) When the AP Rule was first adopted the Ruling that you described in your Play would have been correct : With the order of the play being 1) B1 establishes PC and TC, thereby Setting the AP Arrow toward's Team A's Basket and then 2) B1 committing a Jump Ball Violation resulting in the Ball being awarded to Team A for a Designated Spot Throw-in nearest the Spot of the Violation. This was the Ruling for NFHS and NCAA Men's and Women's until the 1993-94 season.


II) Then, starting with the 1993-94 season, the NCAA Men's and Women's Committees changed its Ruling to eliminate (1) because the Committees stated it that B1 illegally caught the Ball, therefore B1's illegally catching the Ball did not start the AP Procedure, and instead the Committees went straight to (2) but with a twist: the Ball would be awarded to Team A for a Designated Spot Throw-in nearest the Spot of the Violation but instead of Setting the AP Arrow toward Team B's Basket when the Ball was placed at the Disposal of Team A (as per Rule for and Violation or Common Foul before the Bonus is in effect), the AP Arrow would not be Set toward's Team B's Basket until Team A's Throw-in had ended.

The NCAA Men's/Women's Ruling was an Unannounced Changed (more about that later). Sometime in the very early part of the 21st Century but no later that the 2002-03 season, they tweaked, in an Unannounced Change, the Ruling so that when the AP Arrow was Set it conformed to the Rule regarding JB Violations.


III) The NFHS Rules Committee kept the original Ruling until the 2002-03 season, when it adopted the NCAA Men's and Women's Ruling, so that all three Rules Codes are once again the same.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

... catching the jump ball, but were afraid to ask (with apologies to Woody Allen).

Originally Posted by Rich

Billy's post used to be the rule. Can't remember how many years ago this rule changed.

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

...don't forget it is all about volume !!!! Your the best at it !!!!

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I believe that you're confusing me with Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

You are correct that this was the rule. You'll have to wait until MTD gets up from his nap for "proof."

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

.. B1 illegally caught the Ball, therefore B1's illegally catching the Ball did not start the AP Procedure ... The NFHS Rules Committee kept the original (lose the ball, lose the arrow) ruling until the 2002-03 season, when it adopted the NCAA Men's and Women's Ruling, so that all three Rules Codes are once again the same.

So, Multiple Sports, how's that for volume? As much as I hate to say it, always listen to Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. When it comes to rules history, he's the man.

Thanks to all those who set me straight. When the play happened last night in a state quarterfinal game, I remembered the old ruling, but thought that there was a newer interpretation, I just couldn't come up with a definitive timeline.

I've always said, for us veterans, it's not learning the rules that's difficult, it's remembering the rule changes, and keeping them straight.