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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 09:04pm
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I Hate Jump Balls ...

Jumpers A1 and B1 for jump ball to start the game. A1 taps ball, before the jump ball ends, jumper B1 catches the ball. Violation on jumper B1 for catching the ball before the jump ball ends. Team A gets the ball for a throwin closest to the violation. Team A also gets the next arrow because B1's catch was a possession, an illegal possession, but nevertheless a possession.

When a jumper catches the ball before the jump ball ends, his team loses the ball and loses the arrow.

Is this correct?
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 09:08pm
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C'mon Billy ....You can do it !!!!!

Answer your own thread with about 8 posts....don't forget it is all about volume !!!! Your the best at it !!!!
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 09:35pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Jumpers A1 and B1 for jump ball to start the game. A1 taps ball, before the jump ball ends, jumper B1 catches the ball. Violation on jumper B1 for catching the ball before the jump ball ends. Team A gets the ball for a throwin closest to the violation. Team A also gets the next arrow because B1's catch was a possession, an illegal possession, but nevertheless a possession.



When a jumper catches the ball before the jump ball ends, his team loses the ball and loses the arrow.



Is this correct?


It used to be.


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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 09:36pm
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Jump ball never ended because B1 violated. I would not think you can have possession of the ball while violating. Team A gets the throw-in and team B gets the arrow. But waiting for bob to confirm.
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 09:39pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Jumpers A1 and B1 for jump ball to start the game. A1 taps ball, before the jump ball ends, jumper B1 catches the ball. Violation on jumper B1 for catching the ball before the jump ball ends. Team A gets the ball for a throwin closest to the violation. Team A also gets the next arrow because B1's catch was a possession, an illegal possession, but nevertheless a possession.

When a jumper catches the ball before the jump ball ends, his team loses the ball and loses the arrow.

Is this correct?
No. I believe Case Book play 6.4.1C covers this: 6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first quarter, the jump ball: (d) is caught by A1. RULING: (d), Team B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternating-possession will be pointed towards Team As basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 09:40pm
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Billy's post used to be the rule. Can't remember how many years ago this rule changed.


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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 10:51pm
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Violators get the arrow.
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 11:08pm
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The Rules Aren't Difficult To Learn, The Rule Changes Are ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
It used to be.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZonaZebra View Post
6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first quarter, the jump ball: (d) is caught by A1. RULING: (d), Team B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternating-possession will be pointed towards Team As basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
Billy's post used to be the rule. Can't remember how many years ago this rule changed.
Nice citation ZonaZebra. Thanks.

That's why I asked. Anybody know when, and why, it changed?
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 11:26pm
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I Didn't Just Dream It ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Anybody know when ... it changed?
Maybe 2004-05 (when 6.4.1 SITUATION C appears in the casebook for the first time)?

So, at one time the rule was lose the ball and lose the arrow? I didn't just dream it?
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Old Mon Mar 12, 2018, 11:28pm
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Both Old As Dirt ...

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Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
... don't forget it is all about volume !!!! Your the best at it !!!!
I believe that you're confusing me with Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
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Old Tue Mar 13, 2018, 07:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZonaZebra View Post
No. I believe Case Book play 6.4.1C covers this: 6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first quarter, the jump ball: (d) is caught by A1. RULING: (d), Team B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternating-possession will be pointed towards Team A’s basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)

Yes, but in BM's play, it was B1 who caught the ball. That might be completely different.

And, the case appeared as an interp in 2002-2003:

SITUATION 11: During the jump ball to start the game, jumper A1 catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper. RULING: A violation by A1. Team B is awarded a throw-in at the nearest spot due to the violation, which constitutes the first possession. The arrow is pointed toward Team A's basket when a player from Team B has the ball at his/her disposal for the throw-in. (4-12-1; 6-3-1; 6-4-7c)

Last edited by bob jenkins; Tue Mar 13, 2018 at 07:32am.
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Old Tue Mar 13, 2018, 01:09pm
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2002-2003 ... ...

2002-03 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations
SITUATION 11: During the jump ball to start the game, jumper A1 catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper. RULING: A violation by A1. Team B is awarded a throw-in at the nearest spot due to the violation, which constitutes the first possession. The arrow is pointed toward Team A's basket when a player from Team B has the ball at his/her disposal for the throw-in. (4-12-1; 6-3-1; 6-4-7c)

2004-05 NFHS Casebook (First Appearance Of This Caseplay)
6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first
quarter, the jump ball: (a) is touched by A2 and it then goes out of bounds; (b) is
touched simultaneously by A2 and B2 and it then goes out of bounds; (c) is
simultaneously controlled by A2 and B2; or (d) is caught by A1. RULING: In (a),
Team B will have a throw-in. The alternating-possession procedure is established
and the arrow is set toward As basket when a player of Team B has the ball for
the throw-in. Team A will have the first opportunity to throw-in when the procedure
is used. In (b) and (c), A2 and B2 will jump in the center restraining circle
regardless of where the ball went out or where the held ball occurred. In (d), Team
B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternating possession
will be pointed towards Team As basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Mar 13, 2018 at 01:55pm.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 13, 2018, 01:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Thanks bob jenkins for proving that I wasn't dreaming the earlier interpretation.

2002-03 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations
SITUATION 11: During the jump ball to start the game, jumper A1 catches the ball prior to the ball touching the floor or a non-jumper. RULING: A violation by A1. Team B is awarded a throw-in at the nearest spot due to the violation, which constitutes the first possession. The arrow is pointed toward Team A's basket when a player from Team B has the ball at his/her disposal for the throw-in. (4-12-1; 6-3-1; 6-4-7c)

2004-05 NFHS Casebook (First Appearance Of This Caseplay)
6.4.1 SITUATION C: Following the jump between A1 and B1 to start the first
quarter, the jump ball: (a) is touched by A2 and it then goes out of bounds; (b) is
touched simultaneously by A2 and B2 and it then goes out of bounds; (c) is
simultaneously controlled by A2 and B2; or (d) is caught by A1. RULING: In (a),
Team B will have a throw-in. The alternating-possession procedure is established
and the arrow is set toward As basket when a player of Team B has the ball for
the throw-in. Team A will have the first opportunity to throw-in when the procedure
is used. In (b) and (c), A2 and B2 will jump in the center restraining circle
regardless of where the ball went out or where the held ball occurred. In (d), Team
B will have a throw-in because of the violation and the arrow for the alternating possession
will be pointed towards Team As basket. (4-12-1; 4-28-1)


I would think that the newer interpretation trumps the older interpretation.

The former reasons that, although it was an illegal possession, it was still a possession. The latter reasons that the possession was illegal, and thus, not a possession.
I would generally agree with that but the interp and the case play are the same.
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Old Tue Mar 13, 2018, 01:53pm
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Reading Is Fundamental ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
I would generally agree with that but the interp and the case play are the same.
Sorry. My mistake, I just got home from work after a hectic commute through our third nor'easter in two weeks.

bob jenkin's citation pushes the change (if there ever was a change) back to 2002-2003.

Is there anyone out there who can help me prove that I wasn't dreaming the earlier interpretation (that the interpretation at one time was lose the ball and lose the arrow)? Am I losing my mind?
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Last edited by BillyMac; Tue Mar 13, 2018 at 01:56pm.
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Old Tue Mar 13, 2018, 02:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Sorry. My mistake, I just got home from work after a hectic commute through our third nor'easter in two weeks.

bob jenkin's citation pushes the change (if there ever was a change) back to 2002-2003.

Is there anyone out there who can help me prove that I wasn't dreaming the earlier interpretation (that the interpretation at one time was lose the ball and lose the arrow)? Am I losing my mind?
You are correct that this *was* the rule. You'll have to wait until MTD gets up from his nap for "proof."
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