Quiz question

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

MTD,
The NFHS rules state that the ball becomes dead when the period ending horn sounds, unless a try for goal is in flight.

NevadaRef:

Team A has the Ball for a Stopped-Clock Designated Spot Throw-in. A1 releases the Ball on a pass that crosses the Boundary Line at the Throw-in's Designated Spot. The Ball crosses another Boundary Line and goes Out-of-Bounds while never being touched by any other Player. Team A has committed a Throw-in Violation and by Rule, the Clock should not have started, but was started in error by the Timer. The Clock starting in error does not negate the Throw-in Violation by Team A. Penalize Team A for committing a Throw-in Violation by awarding Team B a Designated Spot Throw-in at the Spot of Team A's Throw-in and reset the Clock to 0.7 seconds.

The Ball becoming Dead when the Period ending Horn sounds only applies if the Clock was started correctly, and in the Play being discussed, the Clock should have never started.

MTD, Sr.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

NevadaRef:

Team A has the Ball for a Stopped-Clock Designated Spot Throw-in. A1 releases the Ball on a pass that crosses the Boundary Line at the Throw-in's Designated Spot. The Ball crosses another Boundary Line and goes Out-of-Bounds while never being touched by any other Player. Team A has committed a Throw-in Violation and by Rule, the Clock should not have started, but was started in error by the Timer. The Clock starting in error does not negate the Throw-in Violation by Team A. Penalize Team A for committing a Throw-in Violation by awarding Team B a Designated Spot Throw-in at the Spot of Team A's Throw-in and reset the Clock to 0.7 seconds.

The Ball becoming Dead when the Period ending Horn sounds only applies if the Clock was started correctly, and in the Play being discussed, the Clock should have never started.

MTD, Sr.

While I understand that the clock should not have started, I don't see in my rules book where the ball doesn't become dead because it started in error.
To expand the situation, if there had been 3 seconds on the clock and the timer incorrectly started it early, then a player caught the ball inbounds which was quickly followed by the horn, we have a Case Play from only a couple of years ago for handling that. The ball becomes dead and play is halted on the horn. The officials have to adjust the clock and award a POI throw-in.

How is this play any different? What is the POI when the horn incorrectly sounds?

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

While I understand that the clock should not have started, I don't see in my rules book where the ball doesn't become dead because it started in error.
To expand the situation, if there had been 3 seconds on the clock and the timer incorrectly started it early, then a player caught the ball inbounds which was quickly followed by the horn, we have a Case Play from only a couple of years ago for handling that. The ball becomes dead and play is halted on the horn. The officials have to adjust the clock and award a POI throw-in.

How is this play any different? What is the POI when the horn incorrectly sounds?

Nevada...there are times that your strict adherence to the rules borders on lunacy. This is one of those times. An erroneously sounding horn in this situation does not cause the ball to become dead. It's not a real period ending horn in the spirit of the rule you cited. The rest of us don't need a rule or case play to spell this out. It is an obvious interpretation at the outset.

Come on, man.

Edit: *IF*, in the officials' judgment, the sounding of the horn caused a player---who otherwise could have conceivably touched the ball before it went OOB untouched---to stop trying to go for the ball, then I concede your logic would more appropriately match the situation from the case play of a few years ago that you cited. But if everyone in the gym knows that the horn had no effect on the outcome of the throw-in pass, then I'm going with the throw-in violation and we're putting the 0.7 back on the clock. We get paid to make those kinds of decisions that aren't necessarily spelled out in the rule or case books.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

... we have a Case Play from only a couple of years ago for handling that.

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

... appropriately match the situation from the case play of a few years ago

Caseplay, or annual interpretation? Can we please see it?

[billyu2]

Similar play in 5.10.1D where Team A throw in touches an official on the court and bounces across the floor and OOB. Timer allows :02 to run off the clock. Knowing there were :06 left in the game when the TI was administered, the officials could have the time reset. Most likely the ball touching the official prevented players from either team from catching the throw in pass. Unfair as that may seem, the throw in violation would stand according to 4-4-4. In that regard, I would say MTD and the officials are correct. I do have another thought on this but cannot post right now.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by billyu2

Similar play in 5.10.1D where Team A throw in touches an official on the court and bounces across the floor and OOB. Timer allows :02 to run off the clock. Knowing there were :06 left in the game when the TI was administered, the officials could have the time reset. Most likely the ball touching the official prevented players from either team from catching the throw in pass. Unfair as that may seem, the throw in violation would stand according to 4-4-4. In that regard, I would say MTD and the officials are correct. I do have another thought on this but cannot post right now.

5.10.1 SITUATION D: There are six seconds left on the clock in the fourth quarter
and the ball is out of bounds in the possession of Team A. The throw-in by A1
touches the referee on the court and then goes across the court and out of
bounds. The timer permits two seconds to run off the clock. What recourse does
the coach of either team have in such situation? RULING: Either coach may step
to the scorer’s table and request a 60-second time-out and have the referee come
to the table. The coach is permitted to do this under provisions of the coach’s
rule. The referee shall come to the sideline and confer with one or both coaches
and the timer about the matter; and if the referee has definite knowledge that
there were six seconds on the clock when the ball was awarded to Team A for the
throw-in, it is the responsibility of the referee to have the two seconds put back
on the clock. The timer and scorer and the other official(s) can be used by the
referee to gain definite information. If there is no mistake or if it cannot be
rectified, the requesting team will be charged with a 60-second time-out. (5-11-
4 Exception b; 5-8-4; 10-5-1c)

[Nevadaref]

Here is the play ruling. It doesn't state explicitly what I thought that it did as the period ending horn does not sound although the timer started the clock early in these situations.

From 2009-10 Interpretations:
SITUATION 11: Team B scores a goal to take the lead by one point. A1 immediately requests and is granted a timeout with three seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. Following the time-out, Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is also outside the boundary; A2 passes the ball to A1 who is inbounds and running the length of the court. The timer mistakenly starts the clock when A2 touches A1’s pass while standing outside the boundary. An official notices the clock starting on A2’s touch (a), before A2 releases the throw-in pass to A1, (b), while A2’s throw-in pass is in flight to A1, or (c), as soon as A1 catches the throw-in pass. RULING: This is an obvious timing mistake and may be corrected. In (a) and (b), the official shall blow the whistle, stop play and direct the timer to put three seconds on the game clock. Since the throw-in had not ended, play is resumed with a Team A throw-in from anywhere along the end line. In (c), the official may put the correct time on the clock, but must make some allowance for the touching by A1 – likely 10ths of a second, if displayed. The ball is put in play nearest to where it was located when the stoppage occurred to correct the timing mistake. A “do over” is not permitted in (c), since the throw-in had ended. (4-36; 5-10-1)