NCAA Quiz #2 question

[Durham]

Regardless if you have taken the quiz or not I want to know what you think about this question and why. I know what they feel is the correct answer, but the rule they reference does not definitively support their position. So what do you think?

R1. B1 hits a high fly to right center. R1, anticipating a catch, holds halfway between first and second. At the time the ball is dropped by the outfielder, B1 is just behind R1 between first and second. F9 picks up the ball and throws wildly into dead ball territory behind third base.

A. R1 is awarded home and B1 is awarded third.
B. R1 is awarded third and B1 is awarded second.
C. Since not all awards mandated by rule by rule can be made in this situation, the umpire may decide which bases to award.

[mcrowder]

Originally Posted by Durham

Regardless if you have taken the quiz or not I want to know what you think about this question and why. I know what they feel is the correct answer, but the rule they reference does not definitively support their position. So what do you think?

R1. B1 hits a high fly to right center. R1, anticipating a catch, holds halfway between first and second. At the time the ball is dropped by the outfielder, B1 is just behind R1 between first and second. F9 picks up the ball and throws wildly into dead ball territory behind third base.

A. R1 is awarded home and B1 is awarded third.
B. R1 is awarded third and B1 is awarded second.
C. Since not all awards mandated by rule by rule can be made in this situation, the umpire may decide which bases to award.

A. x

[UmpJM]

Durham,

My answer would be "B" - R1 gets 3B, B1 gets 2B.

I'm assuming that both runners are still between 2B and 1B at the TOT.

When both runners would be awarded the same base by rule, you award the lead runner his base first. If the award to the following runner would put him at the same base, you put him at the preceding base.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Durham

Regardless if you have taken the quiz or not I want to know what you think about this question and why. I know what they feel is the correct answer, but the rule they reference does not definitively support their position. So what do you think?

R1. B1 hits a high fly to right center. R1, anticipating a catch, holds halfway between first and second. At the time the ball is dropped by the outfielder, B1 is just behind R1 between first and second. F9 picks up the ball and throws wildly into dead ball territory behind third base.

A. R1 is awarded home and B1 is awarded third.
B. R1 is awarded third and B1 is awarded second.
C. Since not all awards mandated by rule by rule can be made in this situation, the umpire may decide which bases to award.

Under all codes, the answer is "b." You can't be awarded more bases than called for. So, award the lead runner the number of bases he'd get -- that might cause some runners not to get their awarded base.

Note that had both runners been between 2nd and 3rd, then both would be awarded home -- since R1 doesn't "occupy" home, R2 can also be awarded it.

[Durham]

Ok, while I strongly disagree, and feel that the wrong team is being penalized by B. I am willing to accept it and enforce it as such, but where can I find and read this ruling that you both refer to so that I feel comfortable accepting this protest.

Also, why do we award R1, R2, R3 bases if B1 is walked with bases loaded? Seems to me we would follow the same principal here.

[UmpJM]

Durham,

My reasoning was actually based on the following from OBR:

Rule 7.05(g) Comment: In certain circumstances it is impossible to award a runner two bases. Example: Runner on first. Batter hits fly to short right. Runner holds up between first and second and batter comes around first and pulls up behind him. Ball falls safely. Outfielder, in throwing to first, throws ball into stand.
APPROVED RULING: Since no runner, when the ball is dead, may advance beyond the base to which he is entitled, the runner originally on first base goes to third base and the batter is held at second base.

I couldn't find anything in the NCAA rules that explicitly said the same thing, but I couldn't find anything that contradicted it either.

Since NCAA is "derivative" of OBR, absent anything to the contrary, the principle applies.

The walk situation you pose is different, because the award is to to the BR only, and his award "forces" the preceding runners, which is not the case in the OP.

JM

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Durham

Ok, while I strongly disagree, and feel that the wrong team is being penalized by B. I am willing to accept it and enforce it as such, but where can I find and read this ruling that you both refer to so that I feel comfortable accepting this protest.

What reference does the quiz give? Since I got the question correct on the quiz, I didn't look at or for the reference.

Also, why do we award R1, R2, R3 bases if B1 is walked with bases loaded? Seems to me we would follow the same principal here.

Becasue all forced runners are awarded a base because of a walk. See NCAA 8-3a, 8-3b

[Durham]

JM,

That works for me. I just hate it when they do this.

[Durham]

This is the reference.

Baseball
NCAA
Rule 8: Base Running
Section 3-o: Entitled to Bases



The base runner shall be entitled to an unoccupied base if the individual touches it before being put out. The base runner is entitled to this base until put out or the individual may be advanced one or more bases under the following conditions:


Each runner is entitled to two bases:

(1) If a fair ball bounces over or passes through a fence, unless local ground rules stipulate otherwise (see 4-5).

(2) If a fair ball bounces or is deflected into foul territory outside the playing field and goes into the stands or spectator area; or if it goes through or under a field fence, through or under a scoreboard or through or under shrubbery or vines on the fence; or if it sticks in such fence, scoreboard, shrubbery or vines.

(3) If a live thrown ball goes into the stands or dead-ball area, spectators or a players’ bench, lodges in the equipment of an umpire, or sticks in the fence, shrubbery, etc., and provided it is not thrown by a pitcher from the pitching rubber, the ball is dead.

A.R. 1 If the thrown ball is the first play by an infielder, the position of the runners at the time of the pitch shall determine the awarding of bases. Exception—If all runners, including the batter-runner, advance one base before the time of the throw (meaning the release of the ball), the bases awarded shall be measured from the time of the throw, not the time of the pitch. If the throw is made by an outfielder, award bases to all runners from the time of the throw.

A.R. 2 For the purpose of this rule, the act of fielding the ball or a faked or feinted throw is not considered a play; a “play” must be a legitimate attempt by a fielder to retire a runner.

A.R. 3 Any runner who reaches or passes the base the runner would have received on an award is considered to have advanced to that base even if subsequently declared out for not touching the base.

(4) If, during an attempt to field a wild pitch, passed ball, or wild throw on a pick-off attempt, the catcher or any other fielder deflects the ball into a dead-ball territory, the runner(s) shall be awarded two bases from the bases occupied at the time of the pitch.

(5) If any batted or thrown ball intentionally is kicked, thrown, deflected or carried into a dead-ball territory, the runner(s) shall be awarded two bases from the time of the intentional act.

[Durham]

just saw the word unoccupied