Team catches & shoots w/ .3 left to win in WV Tournament

[Rich]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Absolutely discuss if you have the opportunity (don’t delay the game unnecessarily). Do not coach the coach. They have access to the same books we do.

Very disappointed for the avocation as a whole to hear of a rule being kicked like this, let alone at that level.


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Nothing surprises me anymore. I've heard of 5:00 OT being played in a playoff game.

Hate me all you want, but this is one that could most definitely be fixed.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Rich

Nothing surprises me anymore. I've heard of 5:00 OT being played in a playoff game.

Hate me all you want, but this is one that could most definitely be fixed.

The exams each year really need to be closed book in a monitored classroom. Then the buffoons who wouldn’t otherwise score better than 75% might actually commit some rules and case plays to memory, especially if they wanted to work post-season.

I’ll bet all three of these guys are the types who would tell you, “I’m not a rules guy, but....”

Judgment and mechanics are nice, but they don’t make you whole.


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[Rich]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

The exams each year really need to be closed book in a monitored classroom. Then the buffoons who wouldn’t otherwise score better than 75% might actually commit some rules and case plays to memory, especially if they wanted to work post-season.

I’ll bet all three of these guys are the types who would tell you, “I’m not a rules guy, but....”

Judgment and mechanics are nice, but they don’t make you whole.


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Those are the same people who think less of officials that know the rules thoroughly.


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[JRutledge]

I think we are overreacting about this. This is a rule that should be known of course. But there are officials that do not know rules because they have never been put up against a situation to know the rule explicitly. It is bad, but should we be surprised at the high school level where all kinds of people do not know simple rules? High school officials honestly are on the lowest of the spectrum for accountability. For one most of our games never go into evaluating every call and you can be scratched for not talking to the coach in the right way, but not for messing up a technical foul sequence. I just do not know why we are so shocked by these situations. We have so many officials that go through the motions and never realize little things that might get them in big trouble and go around wondering why they are not in the big game slot.

Taking a closed book test is not going to solve that problem if you ask questions about the diameter of the division line instead of questions that actually could be faced in a game.

Peace

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think we are overreacting about this. This is a rule that should be known of course. But there are officials that do not know rules because they have never been put up against a situation to know the rule explicitly. It is bad, but should we be surprised at the high school level where all kinds of people do not know simple rules? High school officials honestly are on the lowest of the spectrum for accountability. For one most of our games never go into evaluating every call and you can be scratched for not talking to the coach in the right way, but not for messing up a technical foul sequence. I just do not know why we are so shocked by these situations. We have so many officials that go through the motions and never realize little things that might get them in big trouble and go around wondering why they are not in the big game slot.

Taking a closed book test is not going to solve that problem if you ask questions about the diameter of the division line instead of questions that actually could be faced in a game.

Peace

I've worked with lots of college officials that don't know NFHS or NCAA rules but get by because of "game management," how they look, kissing ass, etc. I also work with a lot of officials who know the rules at an acceptable level but are horrible test takers-and in South Carolina that will doom you no matter how good you are at everything else.

It's not exclusively a high school thing to be bad on the rules.

And to clarify, "game management" is not a bad thing. But I think it's an overused camp speak term that is often used to justify "making s*it up" when you don't know or don't want to apply the rules.

[Valley Man]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think we are overreacting about this. This is a rule that should be known of course. But there are officials that do not know rules because they have never been put up against a situation to know the rule explicitly. It is bad, but should we be surprised at the high school level where all kinds of people do not know simple rules? High school officials honestly are on the lowest of the spectrum for accountability. For one most of our games never go into evaluating every call and you can be scratched for not talking to the coach in the right way, but not for messing up a technical foul sequence. I just do not know why we are so shocked by these situations. We have so many officials that go through the motions and never realize little things that might get them in big trouble and go around wondering why they are not in the big game slot.

Taking a closed book test is not going to solve that problem if you ask questions about the diameter of the division line instead of questions that actually could be faced in a game.

Peace

I disagree wholeheartedly. This is a state quarterfinal game. Districts, Sectionals, and State officials are chosen work these games (at least they are in VA). There is absolutely no excuse for an R (or even the U2) to NOT KNOW THIS RULE. Heck the clown in the T emphatically counts it!!!!

If I were the coach, I would not have left that floor under my own power. Yes I do think the coach knew the rule based on where he has those girls defending!

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Taking a closed book test is not going to solve that problem if you ask questions about the diameter of the division line instead of questions that actually could be faced in a game.

I’m with you there. But if the closed book test contains questions about rules that legitimately matter (i.e. we can all dispense with multiple foul scenarios), we might move the needle a little.



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[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Taking a closed book test is not going to solve that problem if you ask questions about the diameter of the division line instead of questions that actually could be faced in a game.

Peace

I'm scrambling for my books to see what the diameter of a division line should be!

[crosscountry55]

When I have a the last second shot, I like to align the count in my head with the count on the clock. For the reasons cited above, I count “5” when the whole seconds value switches to “4”. That way I’m only 0.1 off reality as opposed to nearly a whole second. Of course I use the visual cues of the clock/light as well, but I find that having that count in my head helps, too.


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[JRutledge]

The clock is not what determines the game is over alone. Why do officials insist on having a visual with the clock (which is often very high and out of the view of the court if you are clearly looking at a play) and not rely on the horn or maybe a light? What if you miss some contact or severity of the contact trying to look at the shot and the clock that might not be in a convenient place?

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Why do officials insist on having a visual with the clock (which is often very high and out of the view of the court if you are clearly looking at a play) and not rely on the horn ...

Agree.

Here's what I always do when very close to the end of a period.

1) Make sure my partner knows that we're closing in on the end of a period (less than a minute) with an index finger in the air signal (unofficial signal), or he will signal me. If neither of us signal, the horn can give us a heart attack (already had one, no need for another).

2) If I believe that I will probably have coverage responsibility for the final shot, I will let my partner know by tapping my chest with my hand (official IAABO signal), or vice versa.

3) When I believe that we're down to about ten seconds, or so, I will take a quick peek at the clock to start my silent Cape Canaveral countdown (it helps me to anticipate the sound of the horn (only one school with lights), and it provides a backup in case the timekeeper screws up).

4) If a whistle occurs, mine, or my partner's, I will immediately look at the clock to make sure it stops in a timely manner, and if not, remember how much time to put back on the clock (even though I have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast this morning, now, where are my keys).

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The clock is not what determines the game is over alone. Why do officials insist on having a visual with the clock (which is often very high and out of the view of the court if you are clearly looking at a play) and not rely on the horn or maybe a light? What if you miss some contact or severity of the contact trying to look at the shot and the clock that might not be in a convenient place?

Peace

Absolutely correct. Unless you're working in a place where the horn is really hard to hear, trying to get visual alignment is silly. Eyes on the play, ears for the horn.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The clock is not what determines the game is over alone. Why do officials insist on having a visual with the clock (which is often very high and out of the view of the court if you are clearly looking at a play) and not rely on the horn or maybe a light? What if you miss some contact or severity of the contact trying to look at the shot and the clock that might not be in a convenient place?

Peace

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Absolutely correct. Unless you're working in a place where the horn is really hard to hear, trying to get visual alignment is silly. Eyes on the play, ears for the horn.

I have been an advocate of this for over 25 years.

MTD, Sr.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Eyes on the play, ears for the horn.

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

I have been an advocate of this for over 25 years.

It was only twenty five years because for the first seventy-five years of Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.'s career there was no horn, it was a sundial.



(Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on left of image, Mark T. DeNucci, Jr. at center.)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Absolutely correct. Unless you're working in a place where the horn is really hard to hear, trying to get visual alignment is silly. Eyes on the play, ears for the horn.

And before someone comes in and says you don't need 6 eyes on the shot/play -- yes, you do. Everyone needs to have an opinion on a last second shot or drive to the rack or anything similar.

We don't need eyes on the clock once we know it's running properly. I've worked in some really, really loud gyms and I've never not heard the horn.